If you “transitioned” to a female during your prime…

[22*43*51]

People don't just randomly wake up one day and go, 'Hey you know what, for the first time ever I feel like I should be a girl instead of a boy. I think I'm going to wear boy clothes from now on.' It's not random, it's not on a whim.

There's nothing stopping a person from doing exactly that.

 

[Daddy]

There's nothing stopping a person from doing exactly that.

So the bar for you is 'it's extremely unlikely, but possible' and therefore every transition is labeled as arbitrary.

Do you genuinely not get how this works or are you just enjoy demeaning people you don't understand?

 

[22*43*51]

So the bar for you is 'it's extremely unlikely, but possible' and therefore every transition is labeled as arbitrary.

Do you genuinely not get how this works or are you just enjoy demeaning people you don't understand?

We’ve already seen a MMA fighter(dude) compete in a women’s match. Beat the living shit out of the female fighter and collect purse money.

When $$ get involved, yes this too shall be manipulated.

And I don’t care what people do with themselves when it doesn’t harm others. People like “Lia” are harming women’s sport. Actually, harming women directly.

Most rational people understand this.

 

[Daddy]

We’ve already seen a MMA fighter(dude) compete in a women’s match. Beat the living shit out of the female fighter and collect purse money.

When $$ get involved, yes this too shall be manipulated.

And I don’t care what people do with themselves when it doesn’t harm others. People like “Lia” are harming women’s sport. Actually, harming women directly.

Most rational people understand this.

There you go chasing windmills again.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Cannot imagine caring this much over NCAA women's swimming

 

[Jim14510]

Cannot imagine caring this much over NCAA women's swimming

Nobody cares about women's swimming unless its your kid swimming. Don't brush it off by over simplifying it. You have any daughters in sports?

 

[betsch]

Again I agree. People should be able to dress how they want and live the life they think fits them as long as it doesn't endanger other people. How people dress and identify has zero to do with me or anyone else. Jerry asking to be called Jane moving forward and wanting to wear a skirt doesn't affect me at all.

I think this situation with the swimmer is mostly fucked for a number of reasons. The main reason being an adult man and arguably accomplished swimmer transitioned and then swam against women. There's an obvious and unfair physical advantage there. On the other hand, it does take a lot of courage to transition because it's still a taboo thing to do. People are giant assholes about it and they have to take that right on the chin. There's no way that someone would choose to go through all of that for nothing more than athletic glory. Zero percent chance. And you also have the other women they're competing against who are put in a tough spot. It's fucked 8 ways from Sunday. They probably shouldn't be competing but they probably shouldn't get shit on as hard as people are shitting on them.

I think one way he/she could deflect a lot of the criticism is to self-disqualify himself after the race or something like that. Still be able to race, but let his teamates/competitors still have a chance to win or advance. Sucks for him, but it definitely deflect a lot of flack and gain some respect from his peers.

 

[kenyanfeline]

Here’s a question:

I would venture to say that 90% of people are rational enough to know that the Lia Thomas situation defies logic and should not happen.

But,

What about sports that are nearly entirely skill-based and not dependent upon physical strength? Ping Pong?

 

[22*43*51]

Here’s a question:

I would venture to say that 90% of people are rational enough to know that the Lia Thomas situation defies logic and should not happen.

But,

What about sports that are nearly entirely skill-based and not dependent upon physical strength? Ping Pong?

I wouldn't care. Like chess, it could be co-ed.

Or, 64 gender-ed for that matter.

 

[Daddy]

Here’s a question:

I would venture to say that 90% of people are rational enough to know that the Lia Thomas situation defies logic and should not happen.

But,

What about sports that are nearly entirely skill-based and not dependent upon physical strength? Ping Pong?

Let's try to keep this above board and politically correct. We don't want to offend anyone.

I believe the proper term is Table Tennis.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Nobody cares about women's swimming unless its your kid swimming. Don't brush it off by over simplifying it. You have any daughters in sports?

I'm obviously trolling a bit here. Problem here IMO as shown by this thread is this is just a proxy for the broader trans culture wars. If you just focus on competitive considerations, can see the arguments on both sides and I think it's a murky issue. I don't ultimately really give a shit if a trans male competes in male sports, and from my conversations on it there are mixed perspectives among women on it. There's a big difference between a Lebron James in a wig situation and someone who has been on HRT since their teens or someone intersex born XY. Outside of the Lia Thomas thing there's a lot of controversy on intersex athletes or other females w/ naturally high T levels and what should be allowed in competition. Seems like you can just make a rule for a minimum number of years of HRT and a cap on T levels and call it a day.

 

[22*43*51]

I'm obviously trolling a bit here. Problem here IMO as shown by this thread is this is just a proxy for the broader trans culture wars. If you just focus on competitive considerations, can see the arguments on both sides and I think it's a murky issue. I don't ultimately really give a shit if a trans male competes in male sports, and from my conversations on it there are mixed perspectives among women on it. There's a big difference between a Lebron James in a wig situation and someone who has been on HRT since their teens or someone intersex born XY. Outside of the Lia Thomas thing there's a lot of controversy on intersex athletes or other females w/ naturally high T levels and what should be allowed in competition. Seems like you can just make a rule for a minimum number of years of HRT and a cap on T levels and call it a day.

I don't think it's anywhere near that simple.

Hormones alone will never offset the musculoskeletal advantages men have over women.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

I don't think it's anywhere near that simple.

Hormones alone will never offset the musculoskeletal advantages men have over women.

FWIW, that approach is pretty much what USA Swimming has implemented.

 

[Daddy]

I don't think it's anywhere near that simple.

Hormones alone will never offset the musculoskeletal advantages men have over women.

It's a pretty nuanced conversation at the end of the day unless you're a full stop, ZERO TRANS ATHLETES ALLOWED, kind of thinker which most people seem to be.

 

[22*43*51]

It's a pretty nuanced conversation at the end of the day unless you're a full stop, ZERO TRANS ATHLETES ALLOWED, kind of thinker which most people seem to be.

It's not nuanced at all.

Males are physically superior to females.

That's why we see the disparity only go one direction.

 

[Daddy]

It's not nuanced at all.

Males are physically superior to females.

That's why we see the disparity only go one direction.

If what you're saying were true about there being zero nuance, every male would be physically superior to every female.

 

[22*43*51]

If what you're saying were true about there being zero nuance, every male would be physically superior to every female.

"Nuance" is always used in this ^^^ context to try and upend logic and reason.

There's a pretty easy way to differentiate physical, biological advantage. Lia has a couple of them.

 

[Daddy]

"Nuance" is always used in this ^^^ context to try and upend logic and reason.

There's a pretty easy way to differentiate physical, biological advantage. Lia has a couple of them.

Ok, then the conversation becomes where do you draw the line in regard to competition. I'm guessing you're going to point to muscle mass, testosterone levels, and bone density which all vary among men and it varies among women. If a trans athlete has similar bone density, testosterone levels, and muscle mass to that of her competitors, would you still bar them from competition?

 

[djw004]

Let's try to keep this above board and politically correct. We don't want to offend anyone.

I believe the proper term is Table Tennis.

Thank you for clearing this up. I was HEATED when I read "ping pong"

 

[Alcaus]

I'd fuck up women's softball