Things that make me rage - Shitty OL Play

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Agree for the most part - I just don’t get the praise (and it’s not just you) for Cam. Nothing about him stands out for me other than the occasional bad snap. He still gets pushed around at times too.

I still say with Cam, go back and watch the Ohio state game and watch him. He looks damn good in that game and that was the one game he played before his turf toe injury.

Maybe I'm putting too much stock in that, but he was mauling people during that game.

 

[Pipe Line]

I still say with Cam, go back and watch the Ohio state game and watch him. He looks damn good in that game and that was the one game he played before his turf toe injury.

Maybe I'm putting too much stock in that, but he was mauling people during that game.

I feel like that's the one game you have to put stock in if we want to get national respect again. See how he does against the best competition.

 

[Steveweiser316]

 

[Pipe Line]

I'm not one for player hype videos. His was sick.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Saw this article and it is honestly a pretty light read that doesn't go too much into X's and o's, but I like the topic



@slattimer I had a few questions.

- why does wide zone allow fewer negative plays?
- is there a team in the B1G that hangs there hat in wide zone? My initial thought was Cockeye.
- what passing game concepts do you have if you are hanging your hat on wide zone?

 

[slattimer]

Saw this article and it is honestly a pretty light read that doesn't go too much into X's and o's, but I like the topic



@slattimer I had a few questions.

- why does wide zone allow fewer negative plays?
- is there a team in the B1G that hangs there hat in wide zone? My initial thought was Cockeyes.
- what passing game concepts do you have if you are hanging your hat on wide zone?

Yeah. Cockeye is kind of king in the conference in the wide zone department. Despite how big of douche canoes the ferentzs are. They are damn good OL coaches.

IMO it negates loss plays because of the tracks the OL take. They’re trying to overtake the next guy and to the 2nd level. If one guy spikes either way, you’re covered. Dudes are just track blocking and if they shop up. You got them. Plus most teams in wide zone rip reach and cut the backside. Separating the defense. If you’re good at it. It’s tough as shit to stop. But it’s expensive.

as far as passing concepts. Nakeds are a if part of it with some sort of 3 level cross. Can also run some leak shit that’s a mofo. Plus some 3 level hi lo on a $ can also be problematic.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Yeah. Cockeyes is kind of king in the conference in the wide zone department. Despite how big of douche canoes the ferentzs are. They are damn good OL coaches.

IMO it negates loss plays because of the tracks the OL take. They’re trying to overtake the next guy and to the 2nd level. If one guy spikes either way, you’re covered. Dudes are just track blocking and if they shop up. You got them. Plus most teams in wide zone rip reach and cut the backside. Separating the defense. If you’re good at it. It’s tough as shit to stop. But it’s expensive.

as far as passing concepts. Nakeds are a if part of it with some sort of 3 level cross. Can also run some leak shit that’s a mofo. Plus some 3 level hi lo on a $ can also be problematic.

What do you mean by, It is expensive?

The TITE front or Pirate stunt are the defenses counter punch to inside zone. What is the counter punch to a team that likes to run wide zone?

I assume a lot of what we are talking about as far as wide zone are interchangeable with mid zone?

Is it tougher to run wide zone out of the gun? I would think you would rather call it with a pistol look or under center.

I think Nebraska could have a good Mid/Wide zone game where they can set up some easy throws in the play pass game.

 

[slattimer]

What do you mean by, It is expensive?

The TITE front or Pirate stunt are the defenses counter punch to inside zone. What is the counter punch to a team that likes to run wide zone?

I assume a lot of what we are talking about as far as wide zone are interchangeable with mid zone?

Is it tougher to run wide zone out of the gun? I would think you would rather call it with a pistol look or under center.

I think Nebraska could have a good Mid/Wide zone game where they can set up some easy throws in the play pass game.

Expensive as in the practice reps it requires.

Multiple outside shades has typically been a bugaboo for wide zone teams, eliminate double teams and force 2 1:1 blocks to the playside.

Wide Zone and Mid Zone are quite different IMO. Tight Zone, Inside Zone, Mid Zone, then you have some more verbiage that varies by who teaches it, and sometimes it's interchangeable I guess. But you've got Wide Zone/Outside Zone. Really the difference between Wide & Outside zone is RB aim point. One you typically are aiming at the outside leg of the TE/Ghost TE, and the other is simply wider than that, where it's a true reach and overtake the next man, looking to get outside with little regard to cutting it up, it's more of a get your ass outside and out flank the defense. Mid Zone on out is more of a horizontal displacement, create vertical seams. Again, it's all in the verbiage and who's using it. I've seen Wide Zone and Outside zone switched, and sometimes one called stretch. It doesn't really matter, its all RB aim point and entry and then footwork for the OL that varies the most. Aim points for the OL doesn't change much as the natural reaction of the defense to the OL doesn't necessitate an change in aim points.

So really, you've got 5 types of zones in terms of RB thinking/aim point. Crack of the center - Bang A to backside B, Outside Leg of the PSG, Bang B to backside A, Outside Leg of the PST Bang C to playside A, Outside Leg of the TE/Ghost TE, Bang D to cut up, and finally true reach scheme, RB is on a b line outside, run around D.

I don't think any zone is tougher/easier to run from any alignment. You can do some pretty cool shit with wide zone and locking the BST and the RPO game. I personally love midline off of outside/wide zone.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Expensive as in the practice reps it requires.

I got you.

Would you say zone in general requires more reps to get the feel for the RB?

I don't think any zone is tougher/easier to run from any alignment. You can do some pretty cool shit with wide zone and locking the BST and the RPO game. I personally love midline off of outside/wide zone.

Seems like Minnesota is the team that makes a killing in the RPO game off their OZ. Seems like their scheme really compromises your apex or OLBs. If I understand correctly.

 

[slattimer]

I got you.

Would you say zone in general requires more reps to get the feel for the RB?


Seems like Minnesota is the team that makes a killing in the RPO game off their OZ. Seems like their scheme really compromises your apex or OLBs. If I understand correctly.

Minnesota does a lot in the RPO world. They're pretty good on the 3rd Level RPO, but also helps when you've got those NFL dudes running glance routes attached.

I think most RBs go into college with a zone background anymore,

 

[Pipe Line]

@slattimer @Faux Sean Callahan just wanted your thoughts and reactions to this. Sam asked Frost yesterday if, by recruiting bigger guys this offseason and through development, fans could expect to see a more "power based offense" and Frost said yes. Does this just mean more of what Frost wanted in the beginning? Oregon speed with the old school Husker Power and we're just now finally at the Husker Power part. Or, maybe Frost liked what he saw against Buttgers out of the pistol? Or is he adjusting to the Big 10 now?

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

@slattimer @Faux Sean Callahan just wanted your thoughts and reactions to this. Sam asked Frost yesterday if, by recruiting bigger guys this offseason and through development, fans could expect to see a more "power based offense" and Frost said yes. Does this just mean more of what Frost wanted in the beginning? Oregon speed with the old school Husker Power and we're just now finally at the Husker Power part. Or, maybe Frost liked what he saw against Buttgers out of the pistol? Or is he adjusting to the Big 10 now?

Jmo ever since his second recruiting class or first full class they've made this transition to having a bigger team. I think they initially wanted a very fast team but then made an adjustment of getting more size.

I think when he had a chance to prep for this league he realized they needed to be bigger.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Minnesota does a lot in the RPO world. They're pretty good on the 3rd Level RPO, but also helps when you've got those NFL dudes running glance routes attached.

I think most RBs go into college with a zone background anymore,

So is Minnesota reading a safety usually? I always thought they were trading a LB on their rpo game.

 

[Blackshirts_Win_'ships]

we're just now finally at the Husker Power part

I don't know whether to laugh or cry

 

[Pipe Line]

Jmo ever since his second recruiting class or first full class they've made this transition to having a bigger team. I think they initially wanted a very fast team but then made an adjustment of getting more size.

I think when he had a chance to prep for this league he realized they needed to be bigger.

So would you say he's planning to move towards a primarily ground based attack with spread built off of it or still try to mix and match blazing speed with a power run game? JMO but it doesn't seem that the word "fast" is being thrown around too much anymore. Seems the guys being talked about are simply big and strong.

 

[Pipe Line]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry

Both but it's not wrong. At least technically not wrong. Needs to translate to the field still.

 

[slattimer]

@slattimer @Faux Sean Callahan just wanted your thoughts and reactions to this. Sam asked Frost yesterday if, by recruiting bigger guys this offseason and through development, fans could expect to see a more "power based offense" and Frost said yes. Does this just mean more of what Frost wanted in the beginning? Oregon speed with the old school Husker Power and we're just now finally at the Husker Power part. Or, maybe Frost liked what he saw against Buttgers out of the pistol? Or is he adjusting to the Big 10 now?

Power based offense to you and what a power based offense to Frost is probably a much different idea. I think what Frost initially meant was blending the two schools of thought of Oregon offense with old school Husker training.

So is Minnesota reading a safety usually? I always thought they were trading a LB on their rpo game.

They do both, but when they had those two stud WRs, they ran a shit ton of run scheme with glances attached. Basically if you want to rock down a $ to fit in the run game, they'll pull and throw to one of their freaks.

So would you say he's planning to move towards a primarily ground based attack with spread built off of it or still try to mix and match blazing speed with a power run game? JMO but it doesn't seem that the word "fast" is being thrown around too much anymore. Seems the guys being talked about are simply big and strong.

I think the offense is already primarily ground-based. He's a proponent in my opinion of option football. They're going to run option football a variety ways, including RPOs, double options, triple options, and they even have some quadruple shit that's pretty wild. "Fully Loaded" I believe they call it. Basically, you've got your pre-snap gift side/give side RPO, + a double option on the keep side, + another read on the keep side.

 

[Pipe Line]

Power based offense to you and what a power based offense to Frost is probably a much different idea. I think what Frost initially meant was blending the two schools of thought of Oregon offense with old school Husker training.


They do both, but when they had those two stud WRs, they ran a shit ton of run scheme with glances attached. Basically if you want to rock down a $ to fit in the run game, they'll pull and throw to one of their freaks.

I think the offense is already primarily ground-based. He's a proponent in my opinion of option football. They're going to run option football a variety ways, including RPOs, double options, triple options, and they even have some quadruple shit that's pretty wild. "Fully Loaded" I believe they call it. Basically, you've got your pre-snap gift side/give side RPO, + a double option on the keep side, + another read on the keep side.

So the way I interpret it is, based on Frost's comments and yours now, is "T.O. football from the gun" with a few more route trees and receivers involved, and no full back, instead of "new school Oregon". Am I right, wrong, not even close, somewhere in the middle?

 

[slattimer]

So the way I interpret it is, based on Frost's comments and yours now, is "T.O. football from the gun" with a few more route trees and receivers involved, and no full back, instead of "new school Oregon". Am I right, wrong, not even close, somewhere in the middle?

If he's going to be TO football from the gun, they better scrap some of their stuff up front and focus on the zone game more IMO. I think Frost wants to run the ball and put people in conflict, and throw vertical...however he accomplishes that, I don't care or who we emulates.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

So would you say he's planning to move towards a primarily ground based attack with spread built off of it or still try to mix and match blazing speed with a power run game? JMO but it doesn't seem that the word "fast" is being thrown around too much anymore. Seems the guys being talked about are simply big and strong.

Well I think you look at 2018 when they had a healthy Oz and Washington they were second in RB run carries in the B1G. I think you look at last year and how we were second in the B1G in rushing.

I think he has always wanted to be dominant on the ground. I just think he is finally getting the OL he needs to do it. This should be one of the biggest OL in the B1G this year.

The whole idea behind his vision was mix spread concepts with husker power. Well what do you do when you have us in 11 personnel with Betts, Toure, Manning out wide, Allen or Vokolek at TE, Stepp and Martinez in the backfield? Do you go two high and try to take away the WRs? Well now you have a light box going against a big OL and a running QB. Do you go cover 3 or cover 1 and +1 in the box? Well now you are 1-1 on the outside.

Now of course for this vision to be realized you need 3 RBs to emerge as reliable. You need to have a lot of positive assumptions at WRs. You need to have snaps be right 100%. You need to have an OL that has potentially 19 years of combined eligibility left to be good.

I think they have the pieces to be really good on offense, but they need a lot to go right.