Things that make me rage - Shitty OL Play

[Pipe Line]

Enough to be dangerous

lol the stage is yours

 

[Boondock_St_Sker]

This is my favorite thread so far.

When @slattimer said the "Assembly Line" was expensive, I wondered how much it was then I checked Amazon, before seeing @Faux Sean Callahan's post, and was SHOCKED...$200 bucks? STILL!!! could be a b-day or Christmas gift this year.

All the information you guys are providing in this thread are fodder for the next time I go to the "Inside Husker Football" camps in North Stadium. I'll be armed with better questions for HCSF and the other coaches to really get at what they are thinking.

Will be very interested to see what improvements our O-Line makes this year now that I have a better idea of what to watch for during games.

 

[Pipe Line]

@slattimer other than the obvious reps and just developing through a college career, what would you say our O-Line is missing between the point of where we are now to say being "established" and not something we have to worry about on game day because we know they're ready and can handle their own?

 

[slattimer]

@slattimer other than the obvious reps and just developing through a college career, what would you say our O-Line is missing between the point of where we are now to say being "established" and not something we have to worry about on game day because we know they're ready and can handle their own?

I personally believe they have too many schemes. That's just me though. I'm more of a, run few schemes but more backfield action stuff that attacks defenses for the variety of ways they destruct the blocking scheme.

 

[Pipe Line]

I personally believe they have too many schemes. That's just me though. I'm more of a, run few schemes but more backfield action stuff that attacks defenses for the variety of ways they destruct the blocking scheme.

I agree. I'm a very simple man and I believe in keeping things simple but getting really good at those things rather than having a bunch of tricks up your sleeve and trying to outsmart people all the time.

 

[slattimer]

I agree. I'm a very simple man and I believe in keeping things simple but getting really good at those things rather than having a bunch of tricks up your sleeve and trying to outsmart people all the time.

I should rephrase myself a little. At my level, that is my belief. At their level, I think it's got to be somewhere in between. When your OL is running upwards of 12+ schemes between run/pap/pass/screen...Now they won't ever do that in a game...but they have those tools in the toolbox, which I think is important. You can't be so simple that DCs just feast on your ass to death and they laugh at you because they can lock you up in a hurry. (Unless you have a bunch of creatures and they don't.)

 

[Pipe Line]

I should rephrase myself a little. At my level, that is my belief. At their level, I think it's got to be somewhere in between. When your OL is running upwards of 12+ schemes between run/pap/pass/screen...Now they won't ever do that in a game...but they have those tools in the toolbox, which I think is important. You can't be so simple that DCs just feast on your ass to death and they laugh at you because they can lock you up in a hurry. (Unless you have a bunch of creatures and they don't.)

I assume you have those bullets in your arsenal, but then taylor make your schemes in the arsenal and narrow things down to beat your opponent for that week given their weaknesses?

 

[slattimer]

I assume you have those bullets in your arsenal, but then taylor make your schemes in the arsenal and narrow things down to beat your opponent for that week given their weaknesses?

It's just weird to me. You saw a lot of Dart early in the year and barely any after that. Or you see them run a bunch of short traps early and then it disappears, only to reappear again. They didn't run any P&P until the very end of the year.

 

[Pipe Line]

It's just weird to me. You saw a lot of Dart early in the year and barely any after that. Or you see them run a bunch of short traps early and then it disappears, only to reappear again. They didn't run any P&P until the very end of the year.

Let me make clear that I firmly believe in Frost's play calling ability. That doesn't just go away. Stuff may get out dated and you may have to evolve, but you don't just forget how to call plays.

In saying that, I do feel like there has been very little flow offensively the last 2 years. It looked smooth in 2018. You could atleast see things being set up and could see why things were called in certain situations. Even I could. But, it just hasn't looked like that the last 2 years. Personally I think it's lack of execution due to a constant revolving door of players and easily under half of the roster not being here long enough to fully figure things out to get better.

 

[slattimer]

Let me make clear that I firmly believe in Frost's play calling ability. That doesn't just go away. Stuff may get out dated and you may have to evolve, but you don't just forget how to call plays.

In saying that, I do feel like there has been very little flow offensively the last 2 years. It looked smooth in 2018. You could atleast see things being set up and could see why things were called in certain situations. Even I could. But, it just hasn't looked like that the last 2 years. Personally I think it's lack of execution due to a constant revolving door of players and easily under half of the roster not being here long enough to fully figure things out to get better.

I've got little doubt in his ability to develop and/or call an offense.

I think we've sucked the last several years on O because we have severely lacked playmakers to make a defense worried about actual quick strike scores. So Frost has been forced to try and "out-scheme" with butthouse skill players (You want to criticize them for the butthouse skill players or lack of development, I'm good with that.) And in doing so, trying to do everything he can to give his guys some sort of advantage scheme wise, they have to run a lot more stuff where the execution level will be subpar. That's my personal feelings.

 

[Pipe Line]

I've got little doubt in his ability to develop and/or call an offense.

I think we've sucked the last several years on O because we have severely lacked playmakers to make a defense worried about actual quick strike scores. So Frost has been forced to try and "out-scheme" with butthouse skill players (You want to criticize them for the butthouse skill players or lack of development, I'm good with that.) And in doing so, trying to do everything he can to give his guys some sort of advantage scheme wise, they have to run a lot more stuff where the execution level will be subpar. That's my personal feelings.

That makes A LOT of sense. And honestly that's been something I've been preaching over on RSS basically since 2018. It was glaringly obvious that not only was some of the talent shitty, but the execution was shitty too. Me personally, I'm a self starter and self motivated person in athletics, so I never needed someone to continue on harp on me over and over again before correcting something. I was just motivated enough to fix it the first time. So I don't like to play the blame coach for everything card. Some things, yes, Frost is to blame, but not everything. I'm in the camp of, at the end of the day, under the lights, pressure is on, players have to execute what's being asked of them.

 

[slattimer]

That makes A LOT of sense. And honestly that's been something I've been preaching over on RSS basically since 2018. It was glaringly obvious that not only was some of the talent shitty, but the execution was shitty too. Me personally, I'm a self starter and self motivated person in athletics, so I never needed someone to continue on harp on me over and over again before correcting something. I was just motivated enough to fix it the first time. So I don't like to play the blame coach for everything card. Some things, yes, Frost is to blame, but not everything. I'm in the camp of, at the end of the day, under the lights, pressure is on, players have to execute what's being asked of them.

Yeah, I agree with that to a point. And coaches are guilty as hell of doing this, I know I am at times, especially in the past. Where you've got your base stuff, and you tweak something or use some concept but change one thing to take advantage of what the defense is doing, and it doesn't work because it's outside of the normal reps. Plus the level and versatility of modern defenses would probably blow your mind. Some things like deciphering what kind of coverage you're getting anymore are about as complex as can be. You see some sort of triangle coverage (3 over 2) and there are at least 16 different ways to play it. Think you're getting Cov 1, at least 12 different ways to play it. It's not just your run of the mill is this Cov 2 or Cov 4 anymore.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

I personally believe they have too many schemes. That's just me though. I'm more of a, run few schemes but more backfield action stuff that attacks defenses for the variety of ways they destruct the blocking scheme.

What run schemes do you think would maximize the personnel we have?

Inside zone, mid zone, dart, power and jet sweep would probably be what I would go with.

Then have a few plays as part of the game plan to exploit a weakness. I feel to a point we struggle with development and getting better because we don't have an identity to build on every week. I mean to a point it felt like they rebuilt the offense every week this year.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

I think we've sucked the last several years on O because we have severely lacked playmakers to make a defense worried about actual quick strike scores. So Frost has been forced to try and "out-scheme" with butthouse skill players (You want to criticize them for the butthouse skill players or lack of development, I'm good with that.) And in doing so, trying to do everything he can to give his guys some sort of advantage scheme wise, they have to run a lot more stuff where the execution level will be subpar. That's my personal feelings

I mean look at what his offense did with Washington vs without. He has had about 1 really good offensive game (iirc) since Washington left the team.

We have some dogshit bad WRs

We have the walking wounded at RB

We have a center who is a liability to snap the ball

Kinda some basic things to running an offense.

 

[slattimer]

What run schemes do you think would maximize the personnel we have?

Inside zone, mid zone, dart, power and jet sweep would probably be what I would go with.

Then have a few plays as part of the game plan to exploit a weakness. I feel to a point we struggle with development and getting better because we don't have an identity to build on every week. I mean to a point it felt like they rebuilt the offense every week this year.

As long as you've got something to attack every gap, I don't care what it is. My personal preference is to build off TZ. We're a big pin and pull team. Then we run some counter trey. That's 90% of our run game.

 

[Pipe Line]

Yeah, I agree with that to a point. And coaches are guilty as hell of doing this, I know I am at times, especially in the past. Where you've got your base stuff, and you tweak something or use some concept but change one thing to take advantage of what the defense is doing, and it doesn't work because it's outside of the normal reps. Plus the level and versatility of modern defenses would probably blow your mind. Some things like deciphering what kind of coverage you're getting anymore are about as complex as can be. You see some sort of triangle coverage (3 over 2) and there are at least 16 different ways to play it. Think you're getting Cov 1, at least 12 different ways to play it. It's not just your run of the mill is this Cov 2 or Cov 4 anymore.

Right, yeah. The very basic knowledge I have of offensive football would seem advanced compared to my level of defensive knowledge. I just now this last offseason before 2020 figured out the setups and understood what was trying to be done in a 4-3, 3-4, and Nickel. Never cared about defense or really understanding what was trying to be accomplished before. I thought it was line up mostly the same every time and hit the shit out of someone. Nope lol. I'm sure it is wild now.

 

[Pipe Line]

I mean look at what his offense did with Washington vs without. He has had about 1 really good offensive game (iirc) since Washington left the team.

We have some dogshit bad WRs

We have the walking wounded at RB

We have a center who is a liability to snap the ball

Kinda some basic things to running an offense.

FWIW I think if Cam can figure out the snap thing, I love the ability at Center.


What is the issue with WRs? Is it simply Recruiting misses? Just my opinion, they've looked a little small so far compared to the rest of the Big 10. They just look small.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

FWIW I think if Cam can figure out the snap thing, I love the ability at Center.

Watch the Ohio state game pre turf toe and just watch him. He is so explosive as a center.

What is the issue with WRs?

I think part of it is size. They had a bunch of slot guys on the roster initially.

Noa was a slot guy,. but they were trying him at X because they had JD and Wandale who are better options.
You had Williams who had some speed, but was short and just played bad fundamental football.
You had Woodyard who I don't know what to do here.
You had the rape bros who I think they thought could contribute.
McQuitty never was healthy.

I just think when they got here they were trying to build a team with a bunch of fast guys on the edge and B1G CBs are much bigger that Pac 12/AAC CBs.

Look at the WRs in their last 2 classes. Look at the TEs in their last 2 classes. They are all either 6'3" plus and only have recruited 2 guys that are smaller (Brown and Nixon).

We haven't had the ability to stretch the field outside the numbers since Stanley left. When you can't do that teams will play trying to take away the middle of the field.

Think when was the last time we had a WR on the edge that a defense had to allocate an extra defender to cover?

Now I am hopeful that between Toure and Betts we have an all B1G WR there. Betts is the Roby of this Nebraska team. I am not sure he knows how good he can be.

 

[Pipe Line]

Watch the Ohio state game pre turf toe and just watch him. He is so explosive as a center.


I think part of it is size. They had a bunch of slot guys on the roster initially.

Noa was a slot guy,. but they were trying him at X because they had JD and Wandale who are better options.
You had Williams who had some speed, but was short and just played bad fundamental football.
You had Woodyard who I don't know what to do here.
You had the rape bros who I think they thought could contribute.
McQuitty never was healthy.

I just think when they got here they were trying to build a team with a bunch of fast guys on the edge and B1G CBs are much bigger that Pac 12/AAC CBs.

Look at the WRs in their last 2 classes. Look at the TEs in their last 2 classes. They are all either 6'3" plus and only have recruited 2 guys that are smaller (Brown and Nixon).

We haven't had the ability to stretch the field outside the numbers since Stanley left. When you can't do that teams will play trying to take away the middle of the field.

Think when was the last time we had a WR on the edge that a defense had to allocate an extra defender to cover?

Now I am hopeful that between Toure and Betts we have an all B1G WR there. Betts is the Roby of this Nebraska team. I am not sure he knows how good he can be.

Yeah all that makes perfect sense. I can't remember where I read it, probably a year or so ago, that when Frost and staff got here, they thought they were just going to run past everyone with skill players. Obviously that didn't work. I have noticed the uptick in size with skill players and I'm in big favor of that. I think that part of the bigger, faster, stronger, can be taken seriously now.


Any links to that game on Youtube? The only real significant video of it I can find is a 20 minute highlight one. Doesn't do nearly the justice that 1st half deserves.

 

[Pipe Line]

Watch the Ohio state game pre turf toe and just watch him. He is so explosive as a center.


I think part of it is size. They had a bunch of slot guys on the roster initially.

Noa was a slot guy,. but they were trying him at X because they had JD and Wandale who are better options.
You had Williams who had some speed, but was short and just played bad fundamental football.
You had Woodyard who I don't know what to do here.
You had the rape bros who I think they thought could contribute.
McQuitty never was healthy.

I just think when they got here they were trying to build a team with a bunch of fast guys on the edge and B1G CBs are much bigger that Pac 12/AAC CBs.

Look at the WRs in their last 2 classes. Look at the TEs in their last 2 classes. They are all either 6'3" plus and only have recruited 2 guys that are smaller (Brown and Nixon).

We haven't had the ability to stretch the field outside the numbers since Stanley left. When you can't do that teams will play trying to take away the middle of the field.

Think when was the last time we had a WR on the edge that a defense had to allocate an extra defender to cover?

Now I am hopeful that between Toure and Betts we have an all B1G WR there. Betts is the Roby of this Nebraska team. I am not sure he knows how good he can be.

So they have a version now where it's only our offense in that game, about 9 minutes long. I don't want to overhype the man at all, but he repeatedly blew up their nose tackle and constantly drove guys back 3-5 yards past the LOS. I don't know where his potential lies but obviously Ohio State is pretty good competition, and he looked like on of the better lineman on the field when healthy. I'll look through some more video of him from later in the season to see how much that toe affected him.