Things that make me rage - Shitty OL Play

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Saw that last night. Interesting way to teach the progression.

So was rewatching the NW game. On Martinez's pick, it looks like a roll out Y cross and go type play. What went wrong on that play? I know some have said Martinez was slow on making the read and throwing it, but wanted to get your two cents on the play.

 

[slattimer]

So was rewatching the NW game. On Martinez's pick, it looks like a roll out Y cross and go type play. What went wrong on that play? I know some have said Martinez was slow on making the read and throwing it, but wanted to get your two cents on the play.

What quarter was it?

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

What quarter was it?

3rd iirc toward the end.

Allen pussy footed going to get the ball too


edit
Here you go... It is the play after this one

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Saw this as I am rewatching the National championship game....

View attachment WIN_20210408_12_49_56_Pro.mp4

Maybe @LoudHogRider can tell me why my camera always has a blueish tint when I look video/picture my tv

 

[slattimer]

3rd iirc toward the end.

Allen pussy footed going to get the ball too


edit
Here you go... It is the play after this one

FS Double Move









EZ clips, AM throws it way too late IMO.


Open now, he's got a one man route on the far near numbers that isn't open. Floats too much IMO to make this throw.


This is when he lets it fly. If the Y would have stayed in the cross to the frontside hash, this might be okay.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

View attachment 2508

FS Double Move
View attachment 2502

View attachment 2503


View attachment 2504



EZ clips, AM throws it way too late IMO.
View attachment 2505

Open now, he's got a one man route on the far near numbers that isn't open. Floats too much IMO to make this throw.
View attachment 2506

This is when he lets it fly. If the Y would have stayed in the cross to the frontside hash, this might be okay.
View attachment 2507

So basically that ball needs to be well on its way here...



Vs just starting to throw it.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

@slattimer do I have the progression right here?

Is #1 just running the deep out? or is that an out and up?

 

[slattimer]

So basically that ball needs to be well on its way here...

View attachment 2509

Vs just starting to throw it.

Basically. Below would be Ideal

@slattimer do I have the progression right here?

Is #1 just running the deep out? or is that an out and up?

View attachment 2511

Yeah, I'm assuming that's the progression. We treat the frontside route as a pre-snap advantage. Is our dude better than their dude or do we have a mismatch, like a midget corner, or can we formation a shitty corner at our best WR. If we don't get that, we don't even look to throw it. We work from frontside hash to backside hash to check down. Gonzales ACTS principles. Throw the frontside hash vs 1 high unless the Deep $ closes, if he closes throw the backside hash. Vs. 2 high, we know instantly we're working the backside hash as the backside hash will turn the seam read into a seam bend to hit the open window. If that window is closed up by the BSLB, check down to the backside flat. Normally we'd have a frontside flat as well.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Yeah, I'm assuming that's the progression. We treat the frontside route as a pre-snap advantage. Is our dude better than their dude or do we have a mismatch, like a midget corner, or can we formation a shitty corner at our best WR

So for next year maybe.... We have Betts and 1 high look from the defense.

Do they option this where vs press he runs the takeoff or vs off he run the deep out?

Gonzales ACTS principles

What is this?

hrow the frontside hash vs 1 high unless the Deep $ closes,

So would you say the safety is closing in this situation? Reason why the ball goes backside hash?

Vs. 2 high, we know instantly we're working the backside hash as the backside hash will turn the seam read into a seam bend to hit the open window

Basically hitting the middle deep hole on the Y cross.

This was fucking there all day vs Illinois.

 

[slattimer]

So for next year maybe.... We have Betts and 1 high look from the defense.

Do they option this where vs press he runs the takeoff or vs off he run the deep out?


What is this?


So would you say the safety is closing in this situation? Reason why the ball goes backside hash?


Basically hitting the middle deep hole on the Y cross.

This was fucking there all day vs Illinois.

Vs. 1 High probably depends on the leverage of the DB and they can mix it up with the WR split. The frontside vert/comeback/deep out can be whatever you want. Like I mentioned, to me personally, it's a gift/matchup route only. But vs certain looks you can convert the go into an out breaker or run a corner from an inside release then vert press.

ACTS is a DG term for QB progression. I'm a big proponent of it. A = Advantage route - some route in your concept that forces the defense to do something to take it away. C - Concept reading something within the structure of the defense, sometimes it's a 2:1 or an option route. T = Third fix - which is basically a complement to the concept if it is taken away, you got to, typically a check down. S = Scramble. If those are all exhausted, it probably means they have 7-8 in coverage and you can escape for yardage.

All of this is predicated on the belief that we should be able to beat someone given a two-way go.

Below is how we teach our Y-Cross. Basic fake zone play with bubble to the keep side, half-slide pass pro with the TB responsible for the S.
Advantage - Locked Seam, 1st in the Post-snap progression, we know vs 2 high it's dead, vs 1 high it's live. But somehow the defense has to honor it from the F, or the deep $. If it's a 1 high structure, it basically becomes an either-or throw. We're throwing a hash. Free works frontside hash, we throw the backside skinny post, if not, Y-cross. If it's 2 high, we progress to the Seam Reader.
Concept - Seam Read. This is the key route for us. We assume our guy is going to beat the corner, if not, we suck and won't run the concept. The seam reader is going to take inside leverage, work vertical and at 10 yards is his decision depth, is he staying skinny, bursting vert, or digging in. Break at 14 yards. He works off the $, if it's 1 high, he'll stay vert, vs 2 high, he'll work skinny to dig @ 14 yards. QB reads the backside $ and knows where the Z will break based on the $'s positioning. If the Sam LB wants to drop into that dig window, that's when the third fix comes in.
Third Fix - Check down, TB will check down 3x3 from the Tackle and get underneath the Seam Reader, basically creating a hi-lo on the Sam. If all of that is covered, comes the scramble
Scramble - Get yards and beat the Mike.



I'd prefer to get the Y-Cross to the frontside hash, they don't here, and I'm guessing it was some sort of gameplan/shot type play based on the reaction of the FS safety initially. I'd say the positioning and hips of the $ said to throw the backside hash.

We were fortunate to have a really good QB, slot and outside receiver several years ago, and we made a living rocking this concept and 4 verts, which we treat the exact same as Y-cross out of multiple 2x2 and 3x1 sets.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Vs. 1 High probably depends on the leverage of the DB and they can mix it up with the WR split. The frontside vert/comeback/deep out can be whatever you want. Like I mentioned, to me personally, it's a gift/matchup route only. But vs certain looks you can convert the go into an out breaker or run a corner from an inside release then vert press.

ACTS is a DG term for QB progression. I'm a big proponent of it. A = Advantage route - some route in your concept that forces the defense to do something to take it away. C - Concept reading something within the structure of the defense, sometimes it's a 2:1 or an option route. T = Third fix - which is basically a complement to the concept if it is taken away, you got to, typically a check down. S = Scramble. If those are all exhausted, it probably means they have 7-8 in coverage and you can escape for yardage.

All of this is predicated on the belief that we should be able to beat someone given a two-way go.

Below is how we teach our Y-Cross. Basic fake zone play with bubble to the keep side, half-slide pass pro with the TB responsible for the S.
Advantage - Locked Seam, 1st in the Post-snap progression, we know vs 2 high it's dead, vs 1 high it's live. But somehow the defense has to honor it from the F, or the deep $. If it's a 1 high structure, it basically becomes an either-or throw. We're throwing a hash. Free works frontside hash, we throw the backside skinny post, if not, Y-cross. If it's 2 high, we progress to the Seam Reader.
Concept - Seam Read. This is the key route for us. We assume our guy is going to beat the corner, if not, we suck and won't run the concept. The seam reader is going to take inside leverage, work vertical and at 10 yards is his decision depth, is he staying skinny, bursting vert, or digging in. Break at 14 yards. He works off the $, if it's 1 high, he'll stay vert, vs 2 high, he'll work skinny to dig @ 14 yards. QB reads the backside $ and knows where the Z will break based on the $'s positioning. If the Sam LB wants to drop into that dig window, that's when the third fix comes in.
Third Fix - Check down, TB will check down 3x3 from the Tackle and get underneath the Seam Reader, basically creating a hi-lo on the Sam. If all of that is covered, comes the scramble
Scramble - Get yards and beat the Mike.

View attachment 2513

I'd prefer to get the Y-Cross to the frontside hash, they don't here, and I'm guessing it was some sort of gameplan/shot type play based on the reaction of the FS safety initially. I'd say the positioning and hips of the $ said to throw the backside hash.

We were fortunate to have a really good QB, slot and outside receiver several years ago, and we made a living rocking this concept and 4 verts, which we treat the exact same as Y-cross out of multiple 2x2 and 3x1 sets.

So if I understand this correctly
X - if he has a matchup 1-1- throw it, but otherwise on to the next read the Y cross.
Y- Runs the cross
Z- either runs the skinny or dig depending on the coverage.

To me most of the time if you are in a cover 2 the Y cross should get hit. If the defense goes 1 high the skinny post gets hit most of the time.

IIRC Ohio State hit this vs a cover 3 of ours on Bootle.

 

[slattimer]

So if I understand this correctly
X - if he has a matchup 1-1- throw it, but otherwise on to the next read the Y cross.
Y- Runs the cross
Z- either runs the skinny or dig depending on the coverage.

To me most of the time if you are in a cover 2 the Y cross should get hit. If the defense goes 1 high the skinny post gets hit most of the time.

IIRC Ohio State hit this vs a cover 3 of ours on Bootle.

Basically, that's it. Very rarely did we ever throw the X 1:1 match-up, but if you get some sort of trap coverage, that'd be the most likely scenario, but it's a rarity that we saw such coverage at our level.

I feel like if you get any type of 2 high coverage, you're really working the Seam reader to the third fix. If you get any type of 1 high coverage, you're working the locked seam to the seam read. That's how we teach our QBs to look at it.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Basically, that's it. Very rarely did we ever throw the X 1:1 match-up, but if you get some sort of trap coverage, that'd be the most likely scenario, but it's a rarity that we saw such coverage at our level.

I feel like if you get any type of 2 high coverage, you're really working the Seam reader to the third fix. If you get any type of 1 high coverage, you're working the locked seam to the seam read. That's how we teach our QBs to look at it.

So, what is the coverage that gives this fits?

To me If you played a cover 1 with a shallow hole player it could give it some fits or force it to the checkdown.

When you said, you treat it like 4 verts, what did you mean by that?

 

[slattimer]

So, what is the coverage that gives this fits?

To me If you played a cover 1 with a shallow hole player it could give it some fits or force it to the checkdown.

When you said, you treat it like 4 verts, what did you mean by that?

Where the backside seam reader gets a hard inside leverage player. A Mike that is a dropper that can help on the seam reader.

1 Rat is somewhat problematic because it fits that Mike dropper problem. The answers to that is to convert the seam reader into a seam read into a corner, or switch 1&2. But that's an adustment we'd have to make.

We treat y-cross more or less at 3 verticals, so it fits into our teaching of 4 verts, as we have the same land marks, locked seam, seam reader etc. The only difference is we don't have a guy on the backside numbers. We primarily run Y-cross/3v verts out of 2x2 and 4 verts out of 3x1. Just kind of fits into what we've done offensively the last several years. Plus it helps we don't have another progression to teach the QB. So something like this below working power read

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Where the backside seam reader gets a hard inside leverage player. A Mike that is a dropper that can help on the seam reader.

1 Rat is somewhat problematic because it fits that Mike dropper problem. The answers to that is to convert the seam reader into a seam read into a corner, or switch 1&2. But that's an adustment we'd have to make.

We treat y-cross more or less at 3 verticals, so it fits into our teaching of 4 verts, as we have the same land marks, locked seam, seam reader etc. The only difference is we don't have a guy on the backside numbers. We primarily run Y-cross/3v verts out of 2x2 and 4 verts out of 3x1. Just kind of fits into what we've done offensively the last several years. Plus it helps we don't have another progression to teach the QB. So something like this below working power read

View attachment 2516

So if I understand it right...



You have alerts if on the outside that if you have a matchup you like take it.
Cross is #1
Z runs the dig against a 2 high. What determines the skinny vs take off?
Check down at #3
BYOB scramble

 

[slattimer]

So if I understand it right...

View attachment 2518

You have alerts if on the outside that if you have a matchup you like take it.
Cross is #1
Z runs the dig against a 2 high. What determines the skinny vs take off?
Check down at #3
BYOB scramble

Yup, pretty much it.

Z Seam read is based on the $'s position over the top of him in 2 high. 1 high he stays on his landmark, 2 yards outside the hash.

2 High you have 3 scenarios
1. $ Down, you're over the top on your landmark
2. $ High and outside the hash, break skinny post
3. $ High and inside the hash, dig @ 14.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Alright dudes—what am I missing with Jaimes? He seems like a pretty good pass blocker, but man does that dude seem to struggle with run blocking for a 5-6 round draft pick.

 

[Pipe Line]

Alright dudes—what am I missing with Jaimes? He seems like a pretty good pass blocker, but man does that dude seem to struggle with run blocking for a 5-6 round draft pick.

Attitude. Seems like a nice guy

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Attitude. Seems like a nice guy

How nice does a dude have to be not to blow up LBs and DBs in the open field?

 

[Pipe Line]

How nice does a dude have to be not to blow up LBs and DBs in the open field?

I don't know how to put it into words without rambling on and on but he just seems like a nice dude who really doesn't have a desire to really punish anyone. Same with both Farniok boys. Honestly I get that same feeling from Benhart and Piper too. I think Cam and Turner have "it". They seem like dudes who would "flip" if you hit the wrong button in their head and they'd smash you into a wall.