NBA Discussion

[Kaladin]

 

[gtlacey]

Good post, even if you don't need the picks like Windy said, you should demand them from the Lakers and then flip them to someone else for someone who can help you win now.

Below is just further proof of how bad Nico is at his job. I say all this and watch, the Mavs are going to go win the NBA finals now.

 

[tman87]

But there are dumb enough teams out there to take a chance on Luka. He's a generational guy. And who cares if the team is ruined this year? They're probably ruined without Luka no matter what!

On top of that, The Athletic is reporting the Lakers couldn't contact Luka's agent. I don't if I buy that, but that would align with him dropping $15mm on a house he's going to put back on the market later this year probably.

Again, your buddy might be right, but there's conflicting stuff coming out right now.

The Athletic:
The Lakers’ logic, according to league sources, was that parting with both of their first-rounders would be too perilous. Dončić’s contract can expire in 2026 when they couldn’t know his interest in re-signing. And they had no chance to find out before pulling off an exchange that shook the NBA.

The Lakers could not talk to Dončić’s agent, Bill Duffy, about the trade because both sides, Dallas and Los Angeles, wanted to keep negotiations a secret. Mentioning the behind-the-scenes details to agents would put the information at risk of becoming public, which the Mavericks especially thought would be too flammable. If a trade didn’t materialize, then they believed the prospect of being left with a disgruntled franchise centerpiece could be disastrous.

Inside the top-secret trade negotiations that made Luka Dončić a Laker

Even mentioning details to the superstars' agents would risk info becoming public, which the Mavs thought was especially flammable.

www.nytimes.com

Here's the problem - and not just with sports reporting, but all news - so much is purposefully wrong/smoke screen, etc. Most all of what you are getting on twitter, ESPN, etc - is wrong or a smoke screen.

My friend is not an "insider" like some likely think - he doesn't work for "A" team. I can just say he is a main mover on helping teams manage the cap, salaries/roster management, etc, and he often plays a big part of helping trades work with the math. Plus other stuff - media - for outlets you would know.

I am about to stop this because I see where it has already gone. I didn't want it to be this way. And I want to preserve info about people whom value info being private. There has been very little accurate reporting (and much of it is that those reporting don't have accurate info, mostly because the person/people giving that info have a slant they want out there). That is all. I have seen for well over a decade now the veracity of the info I have gotten, and while no one gets everything right all the time, this situation with my friend is probably at 99%. And - yes - even this trade caught him off guard, that's how much it was kept under wraps and only between a few people (Duffy to Buss, then Nico to Pelinka it went in that order). So much of what these purposefully slanted rumors are, don't even make sense, and are simply to sway opinions of the masses.

I'm done with this for now. Interested to see how it plays out. At the very least, it was probably the biggest stealth trade of superstars to date.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure if it's true or not. I still think Nico is a bad GM and should've gotten more for Luka.

Worse players than Luka got 3-4 first round picks in addition to some decent players. Also, Luka is losing about $20mm a year going to LA (between losing the supermax and state income tax), I know you said he doesn't care about money, but I think he would care about that much.

Gobert = 4 first rounders
Mikail Bridges= 4 first rounders
Donovan Mitchell = 3 first rounders
De'Aaron Fox = 3 first rounders
Durant (probably the only one better than Luka) = 4 first rounders

I think your nugs are onto something, but I think there's another part of the story they're not telling.

Agree they should've pushed for more value, but the picks don't tell the full story, since you need to consider swaps and protections. Couple of those Fox draft picks are pretty low value given likely picking order or otherwise won't convey for example. Spurs were really the ones that worked on that trade.

Ainge is an all-time trade fleecer though.

 

[tman87]

Agree they should've pushed for more value, but the picks don't tell the full story, since you need to consider swaps and protections. Couple of those Fox draft picks are pretty low value given likely picking order or otherwise won't convey for example. Spurs were really the ones that worked on that trade.

Ainge is an all-time trade fleecer though.

Yep - those FRP's more like early 2nds, could even turn in to 2nds yet.

No other gms in the league want to work with Ainge.

As far as the Luka/AD trade - this was an owner to owner trade, really. GM's had little to do with it, certainly not Pelinka, Duffy as the old school keep this in house broker. Nico is taking the fall for the fallout, not that Nico is very good either, but it wasn't his call, it was Dallas ownership who knew Luka was not going to sign his next contract extension. Really - all of them handled it well for their specific purposes and reasons, which happened to align in this rare instance.

At the genesis of why this happened - Luka didn't like Post-Cuban Mavs org or the new owners. Didn't feel it was going to be run successfully enough to get back to the finals. Luka didn't like the Mavs owners, and how things looked long term, and simply wanted out of Dallas, and had the leverage to get to Lakers for a current all NBA stud Big in return. Duffy was able to keep this on the down low because only a couple other people were involved - Adelson, Buss, and Pelinka (who is normally a sieve of info). All understood why, if this was to happen, it had to be quick and in stealth mode. Bron didn't know, because if he did Klutch would know and also AD would know - and good chance that group would have scuttled it/leaked info. Then the dreaded "WTF are you trying to trade Luka" drama gets out. None of them wanted that. And Buss/Lakers wanted out of the Klutch business - which - good for her/Lakers as they need strong leadership at the top (it's been a real cluster for far too long in Lakers front office).

Also Ainge didn't know what trade he was helping out - just knew he was benefitting by helping. If he knew the trade details, he would have fucked it up too.

 

[Dr.DrakeRamoray]

Lakers need to get Vucevic, though they could use a center like Williams as well

Lakers would need to score 150 a night with a line up of Reaves Luka Vuc and LJ. Ole defense

 

[Dr.DrakeRamoray]

Good post, even if you don't need the picks like Windy said, you should demand them from the Lakers and then flip them to someone else for someone who can help you win now.

Below is just further proof of how bad Nico is at his job. I say all this and watch, the Mavs are going to go win the NBA finals now.

The funny thing is Nico is actually very highly thought of in the league. Not sure anymore though

 

[tman87]

The funny thing is Nico is actually very highly thought of in the league. Not sure anymore though

It wasn't NIco's call or decision. This was over his head - ownership decision. Just like trading AD is over Pelinka's head - ownership decision.

Nico is paid well and taking the fall out. Is what it is.

 

[Black Dean]

Why would you buy a 15mil house and not plan on staying?

 

[Kaladin]

 

[Kaladin]

 

[tman87]

The house stuff is not confirmed and floated by one of Luka's buddies.

Understand the story/narrative - only side that doesn't need one is the Lakers.

Duffy doesn't care - will stick to the agreed narrative. Nico has no say, will keep in line. Luka - was done long term with the Mavs, his choice. Pelinka got a gift dropped in his lap - will not eff up the narrative. He's a snake/liar but skilled manipulator to either take credit or shunt blame, when needed. Lucky he had the godfather ties being Kobe's agent, and that Jeanie Buss buys his schtick of BS. Either way - NO reason for him to eff with the narrative. New Mavs owners decided to cut ties now, and hopefully preserve a good team adding an all NBA and top defensive center who himself is a HOFer. Their smear campaign/reasoning for doing this is pretty low ball.

All will stick to the, not logical, narrative. Happens in politics, corporations, with celebs, on down the line.

As far as the question of why the Mavs did it - already answered - Luka was out, was not going to sign the extension. The real tell why the "Mavs didn't get more" for trading Luka - they didn't have the leverage to do so. Weren't going to go public with their decision to trade him now, the team Luka wanted to go to happened to have a current top NBA big that fits the win-now mode, and all parties have good reasons for not wanting an open drama situation by making things public.

 

[Kaladin]

What if the mavs GM just didn’t like Luka, so they traded him to a team who they knew they could get a great PF who can help them win now

 

[Kaladin]

 

[tman87]

What if the mavs GM just didn’t like Luka, so they traded him to a team who they knew they could get a great PF who can help them win now

This is a trade over his head. This was ownership level, here. It was Luka who didn't like the Post-Cuban Mavs org. From there, once new ownership knew they'd need to move him before he expired, they floated the idea to do it now (floated to the Lakers - who were caught very off guard) as the team Luka wanted (Miami was a very distant 2nd for Luka but didn't have AD or the Buss/Duffy tie-in) had the best Big (AD) they could get (who happens to be a HOFer himself) as they wanted to preserve win-now as much as possible.

Mavs didn't want the fall out/drama from a year long, Luka on the market, drama/negativity, shit show. Mavs didn't have much leverage, they knew it. Got the best defensive (plus excellent offensive) HOF big they could.... who happened to be on the team Luka wanted to go to.

The narrative/story is disinfo, which turns in to misinfo as most don't know it is dis not mis. Too many falling for banana in tailpipe.

 

[Kaladin]

 

[gtlacey]

 

[tman87]

All these tweets, speculation.... all missing key info. Yes, Luka knew. Very important to him to keep that info zipped up. No, he was not going to sign the extension supermax with Dallas. Yes, he is fudging on this in what very little he is saying about things. When people don't say much... there are reasons. He values how he is perceived, and didn't want to go all Jimmy Butler on things, nor have a year long drama shopping/bidding war going on.

No, Lebron and AD did not know. Buss and the Lakers wanted out of being under the thumb of Klutch sports - Lebron's business parter agency, and AD's agent. Klutch wielded to much power and influece behind the scenes, and leaked to dictate any narrative they wanted out there. Buss and the Lakers wanted to separate from that constraint. If Bron knew, Klutch knew, then AD would have also known. They didn't know - a big reason this was a stealth trade at ownership level with only a very few - 4 or so - people involved/knowing.

Pelinka didn't do anything but not leak and not screw up a gift dropped in his lap. He is more than happy to take credit and act like he was instrumental in this happening.

On the same note, Nico Harrison also didn't really do much. He followed orders, and one of those orders was to take the fall for the Mavs fans outrage.

Bill Duffy of WME sports agency keeps things tight and is old school. He is the driver of 1) letting the Mavs ownership know that Luka intended to not sign the supermax extension, and also 2) that Luka wanted to be on the Lakers. Once Mavs ownership had that info, they decided to get the best HOF level defensive/2 way big they could, AD is that guy, and stars aligned as he was on the Lakers.

Duffy has been good friends with Jeanie Buss, Lakers CEO and owner (the Buss family). That long standing relationship is where/how the Lakers found out about this. Yes, Pelinka got involved, but it wasn't Nico telling Pelinka over a cup of coffee 4 weeks ago. That convo had already been started from Duffy to Jeanie Buss, who then both Duffy and Buss got Nico and Pelinka involved. Duffy intiated this for his client, Luka, and was the power broker of the whole deal. He was instrumental in getting Mavs ownership to realize that Luka was leaving and this was a good deal as Luka had all the leverage.

Luka wanted the story out there this way so he doesn't look like a traitor to Mavs fans.

Mavs wanted the story out there this way so they don't look like they were cucked by Luka (for the Lakers of all teams), and the spin that this was because "defense wins championships" (which hasn't gone over well), was their story. Hey - they still got back a future HOF big who is probably the best defensive player in the league, plus Max Christie who is going to be pretty darn good (his game has really improved this year and he has good talent and intangibles), plus a first round pick. They didn't have leverage to get more - they tried - no leverage. They also didn't want the likely year long drama/mess of a bidding war by putting Luka on the open market.

Lakers absolutely wanted to go with this story - as they wanted out of the Klutch Sports thumb, and if Bron or AD knew - Klutch would know and leak shit and scuttle it. None of Bron, AD or Klutch knew.

Ainge - you don't tell him shit, he would have demanded way more to be a small helping hand in making this stealth trade happen. Ainge had no idea what the trade details were he was helping, until it was done/too late.

That is all. All this other twitter stuff, conspiracy stuff, spin, speculation - it is all missing key data. This was a very rare instance of multiple things lining up for all parties. That rarity is why you haven't seen a stealth trade for superstars like this, ever, until now. Hell, you haven't even seen a trade of two current superstars like this, ever.

 

[Dr.DrakeRamoray]

All these tweets, speculation.... all missing key info. Yes, Luka knew. Very important to him to keep that info zipped up. No, he was not going to sign the extension supermax with Dallas. Yes, he is fudging on this in what very little he is saying about things. When people don't say much... there are reasons. He values how he is perceived, and didn't want to go all Jimmy Butler on things, nor have a year long drama shopping/bidding war going on.

No, Lebron and AD did not know. Buss and the Lakers wanted out of being under the thumb of Klutch sports - Lebron's business parter agency, and AD's agent. Klutch wielded to much power and influece behind the scenes, and leaked to dictate any narrative they wanted out there. Buss and the Lakers wanted to separate from that constraint. If Bron knew, Klutch knew, then AD would have also known. They didn't know - a big reason this was a stealth trade at ownership level with only a very few - 4 or so - people involved/knowing.

Pelinka didn't do anything but not leak and not screw up a gift dropped in his lap. He is more than happy to take credit and act like he was instrumental in this happening.

On the same note, Nico Harrison also didn't really do much. He followed orders, and one of those orders was to take the fall for the Mavs fans outrage.

Bill Duffy of WME sports agency keeps things tight and is old school. He is the driver of 1) letting the Mavs ownership know that Luka intended to not sign the supermax extension, and also 2) that Luka wanted to be on the Lakers. Once Mavs ownership had that info, they decided to get the best HOF level defensive/2 way big they could, AD is that guy, and stars aligned as he was on the Lakers.

Duffy has been good friends with Jeanie Buss, Lakers CEO and owner (the Buss family). That long standing relationship is where/how the Lakers found out about this. Yes, Pelinka got involved, but it wasn't Nico telling Pelinka over a cup of coffee 4 weeks ago. That convo had already been started from Duffy to Jeanie Buss, who then both Duffy and Buss got Nico and Pelinka involved. Duffy intiated this for his client, Luka, and was the power broker of the whole deal. He was instrumental in getting Mavs ownership to realize that Luka was leaving and this was a good deal as Luka had all the leverage.

Luka wanted the story out there this way so he doesn't look like a traitor to Mavs fans.

Mavs wanted the story out there this way so they don't look like they were cucked by Luka (for the Lakers of all teams), and the spin that this was because "defense wins championships" (which hasn't gone over well), was their story. Hey - they still got back a future HOF big who is probably the best defensive player in the league, plus Max Christie who is going to be pretty darn good (his game has really improved this year and he has good talent and intangibles), plus a first round pick. They didn't have leverage to get more - they tried - no leverage. They also didn't want the likely year long drama/mess of a bidding war by putting Luka on the open market.

Lakers absolutely wanted to go with this story - as they wanted out of the Klutch Sports thumb, and if Bron or AD knew - Klutch would know and leak shit and scuttle it. None of Bron, AD or Klutch knew.

Ainge - you don't tell him shit, he would have demanded way more to be a small helping hand in making this stealth trade happen. Ainge had no idea what the trade details were he was helping, until it was done/too late.

That is all. All this other twitter stuff, conspiracy stuff, spin, speculation - it is all missing key data. This was a very rare instance of multiple things lining up for all parties. That rarity is why you haven't seen a stealth trade for superstars like this, ever, until now. Hell, you haven't even seen a trade of two current superstars like this, ever.

Lot of conjecture and speculation in this post and everywhere else

 

[tman87]

Lot of conjecture and speculation in this post and everywhere else

My info isn't conjecture.

That is all.