NBA Discussion

[Seaofred92]

As a Hornets fan… I am absolutely thrilled. Mark Williams was LAZY. Crazy they moved off Knecht so quickly

 

[tman87]

As a Hornets fan… I am absolutely thrilled. Mark Williams was LAZY. Crazy they moved off Knecht so quickly

Knecht is.... daft. Knecht is older than Williams. Lakers found out that Knecht is a talented shooter/scorer, but much further behind in all other areas of the game than they expected - likely why he dropped to 17 (was predicted higher). I know for a fact that Knecht dropped because his team interviews did not go very well. His defense also will not translate for any team that is looking to play in post season ball. He simply is not ready to be playable this season in the playoffs, and the thought that he may never pick up things mentally to be a guy that can get to that level was real. Lakers are in a win-now mode, but with an eye on the future, also.

Williams is crazy talented. He is an 85 to 90th percentile defender except in drop coverage. I've seen the numbers, watched enough tape, the talent is there. He's been hurt - a lot - that is the biggest risk with the guy. But as a huge lob-threat, excellent rebounding young big on a cheap contract, with a 9'-9" standing reach (Wemby has a 9'-7" standing reach) - this was a good gamble for the Lakers.

I know for a fact that the Lakers would not have even tried for Williams (that front office is.... slow) had the idea not been given to them by someone not in the LAL org.

Redick also knows Williams as he mentored him some when Williams was a Duke, so Redick feels like he can get Williams to improve in his weak areas.

This was a win for the Lakers, still a gamble, but Luka and Bron will be getting this kid a ton of dunks every game. Biggest risk is health, mostly Williams back issues, which the Lakers feel that risk is worth the upside. It's not like Williams is close to need microfracture surgery on his knees or something. Dude went from an unserious team (where when he was healthy was putting up consistent elite numbers) to a team that now has reasons to not be unserious, and as much as I was skeptical of Redick (never actually coached before lol) - he is an intense dude with obvious basketball brains/smarts and has shown he can get players to get with the program.

Will be interesting to see how 9 new players on the roster - most upgrades - since the beginning of the season, works out.

 

[Kaladin]

 

[tman87]

Top Player Efficiency Ratings in the NBA

1. Nikola Jokic - 33.1
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - 31.1
3. Giannis Antetounmpo - 30.1
4. MARK WILLIAMS - 27.6
5. Anthony Davis - 27.4
10. Luka Doncic - 24.6
13. LeBron James - 23.1

 

[Kaladin]

Lakers about to go on a run, might win it all this year

 

[Kaladin]

 

[Kaladin]

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Mark Williams, 1st percentile NBA defender, probably not who you want to pair with Luka

 

[Kaladin]

 

[tman87]

Lakers about to go on a run, might win it all this year

Probably won't win it all, and to be determined how all the new parts click and gel in the remainder of the season, but they improved their chances, likely. They were not in that upper tier of contenders as constituted, but have probably improved those odds now. Their main goal is to stay out of the western conference bracket with Denver - where yet again, if the playoffs were to happen right now, they'd have face in the first round, Denver and Jokic. Jokic gives everyone huge problems, but the Lakers simply couldn't beat that team. They need to hope they can get their playoff seeding to where, if they do have to face Denver, it wouldn't be until the WCF, and they'd hope Denver would get knocked out before then, ideally.

But their roster transition from being good with Bron and James (but a not good enough supporting cast) where they likely were not a bonafide real contender, and a team where the were stuck in limbo on - do we ride it out these last couple of years with Bron/AD or do we throw in the towel now and rebuild - getting Luka changed that equation. Now they have the true HOF level young superstar to build around for the next 8 to 10 years, with Bron there for sure this season, and probably... probably will stay in LA his last couple of years (no one knows when he decides to hang them up - not even Bron yet - mostly will be determined when he really has fallen off enough where retirement makes more sense), and they have now added some pieces that could/may and at least make sense, for a good team now while also an eye for longer term.

 

[Jim14510]

He's tall

 

[tman87]

He's tall

Also athletic. First few NBA seasons cut short due to injury. Really good rebounder, very good upside to improve offensively, and actually a good defeder except for drop coverage - which is awareness, engagement related. Has all the other tools to be reasonably seen as having big upside, and his numbers when healthy show that. Not a finished product at all, and the injuries look more like bad luck than a guy who just can't stay healthy - but that is always a gamble on oft-injured players.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Also athletic. First few NBA seasons cut short due to injury. Really good rebounder, very good upside to improve offensively, and actually a good defeder except for drop coverage - which is awareness, engagement related. Has all the other tools to be reasonably seen as having big upside, and his numbers when healthy show that. Not a finished product at all, and the injuries look more like bad luck than a guy who just can't stay healthy - but that is always a gamble on oft-injured players.

I think good defender is a pretty optimistic read for Mark Williams, 1st percentile NBA defender.

84/210 games played too

 

[tman87]

I think good defender is a pretty optimistic read for Mark Williams, 1st percentile NBA defender.

84/210 games played too

Avg between 81st and 91st percentile in all defensive categories except drop coverage rim protection. A- grades in all other categories. Drop coveragge an F grade.

I'd say the upside is there. He was all ACC defensive player of the year his soph year and near the top in all of college ball defensive player of the year his soph year.

Injuries - 3 sprained ankles, all fairly close together, all on the left ankle. Dislocated thumb twice, 2nd time needing surgery. The back issue/injury is the most concerning.


Is what it is - an elite length/size player with athleticism who has been injured much of his first few years in the league. Playing on a young, unserious team. Has shown some great numbers/production when healthy. Areas that need work are likely fixable. Good gamble IMO. Knecht will be a good scorer, but not much else, on a bad to middling team. He was a good pick at 17 or 19 (can't remember which one right now) that was predicted to go much higher. His draft interviews with teams really hurt his stock (as I said teams think he is slow witted), plus his age - oldest first round drafted player in quite some time.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Avg between 81st and 91st percentile in all defensive categories except drop coverage rim protection. A- grades in all other categories. Drop coveragge an F grade.

I'd say the upside is there. He was all ACC defensive player of the year his soph year and near the top in all of college ball defensive player of the year his soph year.

Injuries - 3 sprained ankles, all fairly close together, all on the left ankle. Dislocated thumb twice, 2nd time needing surgery. The back issue/injury is the most concerning.


Is what it is - an elite length/size player with athleticism who has been injured much of his first few years in the league. Playing on a young, unserious team. Has shown some great numbers/production when healthy. Areas that need work are likely fixable. Good gamble IMO. Knecht will be a good scorer, but not much else, on a bad to middling team. He was a good pick at 17 or 19 (can't remember which one right now) that was predicted to go much higher. His draft interviews with teams really hurt his stock (as I said teams think he is slow witted), plus his age - oldest first round drafted player in quite some time.

Agree it's a good gamble, but just calling it what it is. He's an upside pick and no idea if you'll get that realized while Lebron is still Lebron. Problem is you basically have to play him in drop right now because he's terrible on switches (young center tho). Lakers are going to have to completely re-write the defensive script b/c they're switch heavy rn.

 

[tman87]

Agree it's a good gamble, but just calling it what it is. He's an upside pick and no idea if you'll get that realized while Lebron is still Lebron. Problem is you basically have to play him in drop right now because he's terrible on switches (young center tho). Lakers are going to have to completely re-write the defensive script b/c they're switch heavy rn.

He is not the defensive stud they needed at Center. He is not perennial DPOY level like AD - those are few and far between. He will have to improve quickly in his areas of defensive awareness (switches as you said). He will fit perfectly with two elite lob passing players in Luka and Bron offensively. He will eat off of those guys bigtime most likely. Luka specifically asked the Lakers to get a guy like him, as Luka said he is most effective with athletic lob threat bigs (Lively and Gafford are proof of that). This was a specific ask by Luka.

Lakers, before the possiblity of Luka coming (which that info became known to them 4 weeks ago or so), were targeting Walker Kessler as their top target for a young, elite-defensive center. Kessler is a great defender, not as good or athletic to be that lob threat but it would have worked. Jazz/Ainge really have no reason to move him and asked the moon for him from the Lakers. Lakers still may have paid that price (Knecht, 2029 and 2031 first round picks plus removing the current protections on the 27 first round pick the Lakers gave the Jazz in a previous trade). Lakers were trying to do Knecht, 2029 FRP and remove protections on existing 27 FRP, but Ainge wasn't budging.

There were some other options - Myles Turner could have been had for a player like Hachimura and one FRP. Turner is a last year K though and that was more a player they wanted when they still had AD. Turners defense is not as good as Kesslers, but Turner is a stretch big where Kessler is not.

Everything changed once the Luka to Lakers possibility happened, Lakers held off on trades until that situation worked out one way or the other.

 

[Kaladin]

He's tall

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

He is not the defensive stud they needed at Center. He is not perennial DPOY level like AD - those are few and far between. He will have to improve quickly in his areas of defensive awareness (switches as you said). He will fit perfectly with two elite lob passing players in Luka and Bron offensively. He will eat off of those guys bigtime most likely. Luka specifically asked the Lakers to get a guy like him, as Luka said he is most effective with athletic lob threat bigs (Lively and Gafford are proof of that). This was a specific ask by Luka.

Lakers, before the possiblity of Luka coming (which that info became known to them 4 weeks ago or so), were targeting Walker Kessler as their top target for a young, elite-defensive center. Kessler is a great defender, not as good or athletic to be that lob threat but it would have worked. Jazz/Ainge really have no reason to move him and asked the moon for him from the Lakers. Lakers still may have paid that price (Knecht, 2029 and 2031 first round picks plus removing the current protections on the 27 first round pick the Lakers gave the Jazz in a previous trade). Lakers were trying to do Knecht, 2029 FRP and remove protections on existing 27 FRP, but Ainge wasn't budging.

There were some other options - Myles Turner could have been had for a player like Hachimura and one FRP. Turner is a last year K though and that was more a player they wanted when they still had AD. Turners defense is not as good as Kesslers, but Turner is a stretch big where Kessler is not.

Everything changed once the Luka to Lakers possibility happened, Lakers held off on trades until that situation worked out one way or the other.

Yeah, if healthy, I think he's a great fit with Luka on offense. Biggest question on offense is of course how sync up two extremely two ball dominant players like LBJ and Luka.

Defense is the major question. A Reaves, Rui, Luka, and Williams D? Yikes.

 

[tman87]

Agree it's a good gamble, but just calling it what it is. He's an upside pick and no idea if you'll get that realized while Lebron is still Lebron. Problem is you basically have to play him in drop right now because he's terrible on switches (young center tho). Lakers are going to have to completely re-write the defensive script b/c they're switch heavy rn.

Follow up to your post. Lakers already adjusted their defense recently, and it has been successful. Lakers front office had a bad issue of signing smaller (6-3" or under) guards who to top it off weren't very athletic. Those types get eaten up on defense these days (there are some very good smaller defensive guards in the league though - Davion Mitchell is one).

Lakers - and most NBA teams - wanted to have longer, twitchy, versatile athletes as wing defenders Ideally the swithcy 3 and D wing types. They re-signed Jared Vanderbilt as one of those guys. Vanderbilt is a dawg of a defender - just gets after it and has the size, length and athleticism to do it. Terrible offensively, though. Then they recently traded for Dorian Finney Smith - who is a very good team defender who can guard wings and even do decently on bigs on switches - not a super athlete, but good enough and has a very good 3 ball these days. Vanderbilt recenlty being healthy (he was out a year) and DFS now on the team, along with Gabe Vincent also finally being healthy and starting hit his stride (very good guard defender) - those 3 have really changed the equation for the Lakers on defense - plus an uptick in effort on close outs, awareness on switching, etc, by most of the rest of the main rotation players (see Reaves, Christie (now traded) Hachimura - those types). Redick expects and will hold accountable players who are slacking/not engaged/not getting it done. Adding an elite length/athleticism young Center, who has work to do in areas defensively but also has obvious big upside there too - was too much to not go for.

BTW - Lakers peeps hadn't even considered Williams until the Luka trade. As is usually the case - outside, but friendly parties - have to talk to the mid level people in the Lakers front office (Not Pelinka but more like the ones who get to make 2nd rnd level pick decisions/choices), who then try to get that info on certain players to target and why, move that info up the chain. The upper front office has to be hand-fed, basically.

 

[Dr.DrakeRamoray]

@tman87 outting himself as an NBA scout or something🤣