And so it begins...(tracking Coach Prime decommits/transfers)

[Poor_and_Stupid]

While I agree with you 90% the one factor that also needs to be examined is did we REALLY out recruit our B!G West foes? Way too much credit is given those end of year team recruiting rankings. So many of our top 20 classes were smoke and mirrors. The final rankings of our classes so often were propped up by four stars that were either personality risks or over rated by the services. We all joke about the curse of the four star but it wasn't a curse it was bad recruiting. Our coaches for many years were taking a lot of "four star" guys in desperation and hoping that these players that were given a hard pass by other major schools would become stars for us. The list of dudes that fit this narrative is far too long and exhaustive to even attempt. Of the long list of failures by all of our coaches since Osborne not named Callahan recruiting is pretty high on my list of why we've struggled and slipped way below mediocrity.

Agree with this. Seemed like in a lot of cases we would have guys get bumped in the final rankings to a low 4 star. Our retarded fan base is worth a lot of money and clicks to the recruiting services compared to a Minnesota or Purdue. I think a lot of our players had their ratings inflated to keep us engaged. I feel like our bad luck with 4 stars should be a statistical impossibility. Much like many other aspects of our futbol futility.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

The NFL draft is the whole story on Nebraska vs. the Big Ten West and that story is that we are not, nor have been, more talented than the other teams. Maybe the higher recruiting ranking meant the worst of our 22 were better than the worst of our opponents 22, but the gap between our best and their best has been pretty stark, imo.

Nebraska has had 9 players drafted since 2019 and that is only better than NW in the west who had 8, but NW has had 3 1st rounders in that time. And of Nebraska's 9 picks, 4 of them were 1 year transfers, which means that the prior years roster was even less talented than the NFL numbers suggest because they were on different teams.

Of course our time in the cellar of CFB is only explained by failures across talent identification, development, and coaching but with the benefit of hindsight we've had one of the worst rosters in major college football since.the Scott Frost era when it comes to talent.

 

[CornFed Gregger]

Recruiting has had problems since Bo would have to do a full on sprint the last 3-5 weeks to put the finishing touches on a class then under recruiting at certain positions. Frost & Bo both didn’t do full scouting on guys & would take em for the wrong reasons. Riley didn’t hold any players accountable so it didn’t matter who he recruited.

Other programs have been beating us in developing players but the Iowas & Wisconsins of the world have not been able to buy/develop top skill players & it’s why even with good coaching vs our shitty coaches, we’re only losing by last second FGs or TDs. We haven’t had legitimate coaching/scouting/development in a loooooooong time.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

Recruiting has had problems since Bo would have to do a full on sprint the last 3-5 weeks to put the finishing touches on a class then under recruiting at certain positions. Frost & Bo both didn’t do full scouting on guys & would take em for the wrong reasons. Riley didn’t hold any players accountable so it didn’t matter who he recruited.

Other programs have been beating us in developing players but the Iowas & Wisconsins of the world have not been able to buy top end skill players & it’s why even with good coaching vs our shitty coaches, we’re only losing by last second FGs or TDs. We haven’t had legitimate coaching/scouting/development in a loooooooong time.

And those NFL guys matter at the margins we've been losing games at. See Trey Palmer blowing the top off Cockeye in a win under FFNHCMJ

 

[CornFed Gregger]

And those NFL guys matter at the margins we've been losing games at. See Trey Palmer blowing the top off Cockeye in a win under FFNHCMJ

I got a buddy who is a diehard hawk fan that believes if Cooper dejean was playing, he would’ve shut Palmer down. Palmer’s 4.33 post route vs a white corner who probably runs mid 4.4

It’ll be interesting if dejean can bring white corners out of extinction but I bet the eagles won’t give him the chance.

 

[...TrueColors...]

If Cockeye can excuse away their 2022 loss where we could have scored as many points against them as we wanted to had we not gone into a shell in the 2H; can we talk about how we’ve played them with Ron Kellogg, Ryker Fyfe, Logan Smothers, and Chubba Purdy at QB?

All of those guys were 3rd options before injuries made them the best option.

 

[HCFord1]

If Cockeye can excuse away their 2022 loss where we could have scored as many points against them as we wanted to had we not gone into a shell in the 2H; can we talk about how we’ve played them with Ron Kellogg, Ryker Fyfe, Logan Smothers, and Chubba Purdy at QB?

All of those guys were 3rd options before injuries made them the best option.

True but they haven’t exactly been starting Tom Brady under center, especially the last several years.

 

[HerbRedman]

While I agree with you 90% the one factor that also needs to be examined is did we REALLY out recruit our B!G West foes? Way too much credit is given those end of year team recruiting rankings. So many of our top 20 classes were smoke and mirrors. The final rankings of our classes so often were propped up by four stars that were either personality risks or over rated by the services. We all joke about the curse of the four star but it wasn't a curse it was bad recruiting. Our coaches for many years were taking a lot of "four star" guys in desperation and hoping that these players that were given a hard pass by other major schools would become stars for us. The list of dudes that fit this narrative is far too long and exhaustive to even attempt. Of the long list of failures by all of our coaches since Osborne not named Callahan recruiting is pretty high on my list of why we've struggled and slipped way below mediocrity.

Frost did a terrible developing and retaining talent....that's a fact. I don't think anyone is arguing that. The Athletic has done a great job documenting that w/ their recruiting class re-rankings.

My point is, we've lost to Colorado x3, Northern Illinois, Troy St, Georgia Southern, Minnesota w/ like 30 COVID absences, NW team that went 1-11, Purdue team that finished 4-8. I can go on and on for bad losses in the last 6 yrs.

Even downgrading our recruiting classes to their proper re-ranking, we should still beat a 1-11 NW team. You should still beat a 4-8 Purdue team in 2019. You should still beat a Mike McIntyre-coached CU team.

Saying "well you just think the N logo = undefeated" is a gross over-simplification. Even accounting for the recruiting downgrade, Frost still underperformed. The 2019 team probably had 8-4 talent vs their schedule that year. Frosty coached them down to 5-7. Logo has nothing to do with it.

 

[Stan Raymond]

Frost did a terrible developing and retaining talent....that's a fact. I don't think anyone is arguing that. The Athletic has done a great job documenting that w/ their recruiting class re-rankings.

My point is, we've lost to Colorado x3, Northern Illinois, Troy St, Georgia Southern, Minnesota w/ like 30 COVID absences, NW team that went 1-11, Purdue team that finished 4-8. I can go on and on for bad losses in the last 6 yrs.

Even downgrading our recruiting classes to their proper re-ranking, we should still beat a 1-11 NW team. You should still beat a 4-8 Purdue team in 2019. You should still beat a Mike McIntyre-coached CU team.

Saying "well you just think the N logo = undefeated" is a gross over-simplification. Even accounting for the recruiting downgrade, Frost still underperformed. The 2019 team probably had 8-4 talent vs their schedule that year. Frosty coached them down to 5-7. Logo has nothing to do with it.

We didn't get the best out of our players lately. really no more poster boy for that then Adrian Martinez. His effectiveness were directly impacted by the poor coaching, the poor development of players along with recruiting/roster issues led to losses that shouldn't have happened.

 

[BIG TONE SOPRANO]

Frost did a terrible developing and retaining talent....that's a fact. I don't think anyone is arguing that. The Athletic has done a great job documenting that w/ their recruiting class re-rankings.

My point is, we've lost to Colorado x3, Northern Illinois, Troy St, Georgia Southern, Minnesota w/ like 30 COVID absences, NW team that went 1-11, Purdue team that finished 4-8. I can go on and on for bad losses in the last 6 yrs.

Even downgrading our recruiting classes to their proper re-ranking, we should still beat a 1-11 NW team. You should still beat a 4-8 Purdue team in 2019. You should still beat a Mike McIntyre-coached CU team.

Saying "well you just think the N logo = undefeated" is a gross over-simplification. Even accounting for the recruiting downgrade, Frost still underperformed. The 2019 team probably had 8-4 talent vs their schedule that year. Frosty coached them down to 5-7. Logo has nothing to do with it.

Frost isn’t here anymore pal

 

[HerbRedman]

Frost isn’t here anymore pal

He is

 

[HerbRedman]

We didn't get the best out of our players lately. really no more poster boy for that then Adrian Martinez. His effectiveness were directly impacted by the poor coaching, the poor development of players along with recruiting/roster issues led to losses that shouldn't have happened.

Agreed. And I don't think it's been a ton, I just think post-2016, we've had about 7-5 level talent. I think 2019 was maybe 8-4 level as mentioned.

So I think we've underperformed our talent level by about -2 to -3 wins per year since 2016.

 

[Sous Chef]

HerbRedman said:
TBF though....most of Nebraska's games vs B1G West teams, we've had the better players. If you go by recruiting rankings.

While I agree with you 90% the one factor that also needs to be examined is did we REALLY out recruit our B!G West foes?

You aren't wrong I just take exception to the idea that we've out recruited the majority of B1G west teams.

 

[HerbRedman]

While I agree with you 90% the one factor that also needs to be examined is did we REALLY out recruit our B!G West foes?

You aren't wrong I just take exception to the idea that we've out recruited the majority of B1G west teams.

Probably slightly out-recruited them after the re-rank but the major factor has been lack of development. Wisconsin/Cockeye/MN get way more out of their equal-level recruits (3 star kids) than we do.

The other advantage we've had (and squandered) is our bag men allow us to go into the portal and pay for top-level portal guys like Trey Palmer, Samouri Toure, etc. These are guys that Purdue/NW/MN/IA can't afford. And we've squandered that advantage too bc we end up losing to those schools anyway.

There really aren't many advantages those schools have on us....they've just beaten us w old fashioned hard work, player development and smarter in-game coaching.


I'll put it this way: even if we have 50-50 dead even classes with Illinois, Minnesota and Purdue....there's still no excuse for having losing records vs those schools. We're actually losing to those schools more than we win. That shouldn't happen if the recruiting classes are even.

 

[Stan Raymond]

HerbRedman said:
TBF though....most of Nebraska's games vs B1G West teams, we've had the better players. If you go by recruiting rankings.

While I agree with you 90% the one factor that also needs to be examined is did we REALLY out recruit our B!G West foes?

You aren't wrong I just take exception to the idea that we've out recruited the majority of B1G west teams.

Out recruited, yes. We won more recruiting battles with B1G West teams than we lost.

But were we recruiting the right players. The talent identification, evaluation and vetting of the recruits was off. Add in poor development and roster management and that is the hole that Rhule is currently digging us out of.

 

[Sous Chef]

Probably slightly out-recruited them after the re-rank but the major factor has been lack of development. Wisconsin/Cockeye/MN get way more out of their equal-level recruits (3 star kids) than we do.

The other advantage we've had (and squandered) is our bag men allow us to go into the portal and pay for top-level portal guys like Trey Palmer, Samouri Toure, etc. These are guys that Purdue/NW/MN/IA can't afford. And we've squandered that advantage too bc we end up losing to those schools anyway.

There really aren't many advantages those schools have on us....they've just beaten us w old fashioned hard work, player development and smarter in-game coaching.


I'll put it this way: even if we have 50-50 dead even classes with Illinois, Minnesota and Purdue....there's still no excuse for having losing records vs those schools. We're actually losing to those schools more than we win. That shouldn't happen if the recruiting classes are even.

We lost the majority of those games because of god awful offensive lines. All of those teams were superior to us in the trenches...by quite a bit. We can get all the Toure's we want but when our QB was running for his life or flat on his back or throwing picks off his back foot or fumbling the ball for the millionth time because of the INSTANT pressure from our slightly out recruited foes' front seven it doesn't mean shit. You are approaching this like I disagree with you about the lack of development. I don't. It was a major fail by Frosty and his crew of imbeciles.

 

[HerbRedman]

Out recruited, yes. We won more recruiting battles with B1G West teams than we lost.

But were we recruiting the right players. The talent identification, evaluation and vetting of the recruits was off. Add in poor development and roster management and that is the hole that Rhule is currently digging us out of.

Yeah I mean we've actually lost to Minnesota 5 years in a row (2019-23). Even if you had dead-even recruiting classes with MN during that time period, that should still be unacceptable.

The fact that we had slightly better recruiting classes than MN makes it even worse.

 

[...TrueColors...]

True but they haven’t exactly been starting Tom Brady under center, especially the last several years.

I really don’t care enough to have too long of a conversation about it as injuries happen. But what I’ll say is that missing your starting QB is a lot different than not having anything at QB to begin with.

 

[Sous Chef]

Yeah I mean we've actually lost to Minnesota 5 years in a row (2019-23).

Even if you had dead-even recruiting classes with MN during that time period, that should still be unacceptable.

The fact that we had slightly better recruiting classes than MN makes it even worse.

Clearly it was unacceptable. I'd be pissed about Fraudst getting his last year (3 games) except it meant we got to hire Rhule. To be determined of course, but it looks like it will be worth it.

 

[Stan Raymond]

Clearly it was unacceptable. I'd be pissed about Fraudst getting his last year (3 games) except it meant we got to hire Rhule. To be determined of course, but it looks like it will be worth it.

It might work out for us, but bringing Frost back for the 2022 season was a really bad decision. It was obvious he couldn't do the job and his effort really dropped as Frost himself didn't think he could do the job.