Casey Thompson Injury (1 Viewer)

[slattimer]

Unfortunately, you will get the argument in your 4th paragraph that those issues are derived from a lack of recruiting success, lack of coaching skills, and/or lack of assistant coaching skills which then ties back to Frost. While some of that may be true, there are numerous replays of guys simply executing horrifically. Again, some will say that is poor coaching, while some like myself will say that at some point guys just need to be high level athletes and execute their assignments. Pretty easy to execute WR blocking in pick up football, yet D1 WRs have an issue with it for some reason.

Blocking in space is one of the hardest skills in football IMO.. Probably 3rd behind Tackling in space, and blocking in the box.

Frost's offense is challenging in a variety of ways.
#1 - The offense can stretch you vertically with a wide variety of ways of running Y-Cross (3 verts to me) and 4 verts.

#2 - The offense can run "triple" a wide variety of ways. When I say triple, I mean with some sort of "dive" action blocked inside/outside zone, dart, etc. a QB run phase, and a QB "pitch" phase. Which can include an actual pitch or some sort of perimeter screen.

#3 - The offense can run a variety of of RPOs, featuring either a Q run (seems to be their favorite RPO) or a lock RPO vs 2 high reading a 2nd/3rd level box fitter. They also have in their toolbox a fast/fly/jet RPO with a sprintout attached the backend.

#4 - The offense features a diverse run game involving a potential of multitude of schemes to attack a defense in every gap.

#5 - The offense features a wide variety of formation and motion to window dress and formation into an advantageous look.

#6 - The offense has a passing & slow screen game menu that can threaten and beat a variety of coverages and pressures.



But hopefully you pick up on the picture...."wide variety...diverse" Kind of the master of none, jack of all trades shit. Yeah, it's great to have this robust toolbox, but if you can't execute it or are just changing your run game week by week, then you get what we've got over the last several years. Massive inconsistencies, boom/bust offense, and the infamous...well they came out in a 4 down so that threw out half of our stuff shit. I can't say we've got an identity run. I don't know what it is if there is one they run effectively. Maybe the dart from a couple years ago.

And that's what drives me up a wall. The big reason they get beat in this league is most defenses are sound and play a few things well, and that will almost always outplay a team that is more of a "flavor of the week" offense. Yeah, you're going to put in some stuff to try and take advantage of what they do defensively. But if it doesn't fit with what you do well...then it's going to suck.

@Faux Sean Callahan mentioned the Dart RPO...they ran the holy shit out of that a few years ago. And it was pretty effective for the most part, regardless of the team they ran it against. It's a really good QB run RPO.

 

[slattimer]

I am not smart enough to know if it's just a shitty RB run game, poor ball placement on the perimeter passing or bad perimeter blocking, but we have shown a remarkable ability to brick our layups since 2019. I think there's something to how people play zone against us, but not totally sure.

It's a combination of all of those. I don't think AM's ball placement was great. They had breakdowns in perimeter blocking often. But every team in the country plays those perimeter screens daily with a variety of coverages, but it all stems to basically one part of the coverage will fast fire and force the ball back into the teeth of the defense, and a cap player over the top to prevent the PAP shot. Everyone knows this, but it's all execution.

 

[alt f4]

Blocking in space is one of the hardest skills in football IMO.. Probably 3rd behind Tackling in space, and blocking in the box.

You must be an offensive line specialist.

My opinion:
The most difficult skill in football is open field tackling, #2 is 1 on 1 coverage, especially deep. I always though open field blocking/stalk blocking (I played WR) was easy, however, blocking in space is probably true for big lineman.

 

[slattimer]

You must be an offensive line specialist.

My opinion:
The most difficult skill in football is open field tackling, #2 is 1 on 1 coverage, especially deep. I always though open field blocking/stalk blocking (I played WR) was easy, however, blocking in space is probably true for big lineman.

Have coached/played OL/TE my whole career, as well as DL. Have helped most other positions at one point. OC - 12 years. I'm definitely fat guy biased.

Whenever you can eliminate a two way go, the skill becomes a lot easier. But any type of tackling/blocking is always going to trump in my mind another skill. JMO. 1:1 coverage is nothing easy.

 

[...TrueColors...]

Have coached/played OL/TE my whole career, as well as DL. Have helped most other positions at one point. OC - 12 years. I'm definitely fat guy biased.

Whenever you can eliminate a two way go, the skill becomes a lot easier. But any type of tackling/blocking is always going to trump in my mind another skill. JMO. 1:1 coverage is nothing easy.

How hard is it to teach zone blocking in high school?

 

[ChocaEgg]

Unfortunately, you will get the argument in your 4th paragraph that those issues are derived from a lack of recruiting success, lack of coaching skills, and/or lack of assistant coaching skills which then ties back to Frost. While some of that may be true, there are numerous replays of guys simply executing horrifically. Again, some will say that is poor coaching, while some like myself will say that at some point guys just need to be high level athletes and execute their assignments. Pretty easy to execute WR blocking in pick up football, yet D1 WRs have an issue with it for some reason.

People not executing is 110% coaching.

 

[Pipe Line]

Blocking in space is one of the hardest skills in football IMO.. Probably 3rd behind Tackling in space, and blocking in the box.

Frost's offense is challenging in a variety of ways.
#1 - The offense can stretch you vertically with a wide variety of ways of running Y-Cross (3 verts to me) and 4 verts.

#2 - The offense can run "triple" a wide variety of ways. When I say triple, I mean with some sort of "dive" action blocked inside/outside zone, dart, etc. a QB run phase, and a QB "pitch" phase. Which can include an actual pitch or some sort of perimeter screen.

#3 - The offense can run a variety of of RPOs, featuring either a Q run (seems to be their favorite RPO) or a lock RPO vs 2 high reading a 2nd/3rd level box fitter. They also have in their toolbox a fast/fly/jet RPO with a sprintout attached the backend.

#4 - The offense features a diverse run game involving a potential of multitude of schemes to attack a defense in every gap.

#5 - The offense features a wide variety of formation and motion to window dress and formation into an advantageous look.

#6 - The offense has a passing & slow screen game menu that can threaten and beat a variety of coverages and pressures.



But hopefully you pick up on the picture...."wide variety...diverse" Kind of the master of none, jack of all trades shit. Yeah, it's great to have this robust toolbox, but if you can't execute it or are just changing your run game week by week, then you get what we've got over the last several years. Massive inconsistencies, boom/bust offense, and the infamous...well they came out in a 4 down so that threw out half of our stuff shit. I can't say we've got an identity run. I don't know what it is if there is one they run effectively. Maybe the dart from a couple years ago.

And that's what drives me up a wall. The big reason they get beat in this league is most defenses are sound and play a few things well, and that will almost always outplay a team that is more of a "flavor of the week" offense. Yeah, you're going to put in some stuff to try and take advantage of what they do defensively. But if it doesn't fit with what you do well...then it's going to suck.

@Faux Sean Callahan mentioned the Dart RPO...they ran the holy shit out of that a few years ago. And it was pretty effective for the most part, regardless of the team they ran it against. It's a really good QB run RPO.

I acknowledge you're a shit load smarter than me but we may just differ in opinion on the blocking thing. I understand there's technique and skill to blocking, but you also have to want to block and take pride in blocking, which is another thing entirely, and I don't think that should be difficult.


Now, I do thank you for putting all that out there. I've read @Faux Sean Callahan say something similar, and that's probably what I've learned to hate about Frost's offense, atleast the Frost/Martinez offense. Too many options, not good enough at any of them to be really effective. Sounds great on paper, but tough to apply. Kind of like Husker Power mixed with Oregon Speed. Sounds great on paper, been tough to apply. I guess that goes back to Frost wanting to be the smartest guy in the room and trying to out scheme everyone, instead of just out executing everyone. I get it, and it has showed.

 

[Pipe Line]

People not executing is 110% coaching.

Coaches put players in positions to make plays. Players make plays. If Coaches put a player in a position to make a play, and they don't make that play, that's on the player. This concept isn't just Nebraska, it's anywhere. Coaching didn't cause Yant to stumble at the goal line last year. Yant caused Yant to stumble at the goal line. That is not executing when your number is called.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Blocking in space is one of the hardest skills in football IMO.

Blocking in space is especially tough for linemen. It is almost about making sure that if you miss you miss to the right side.

I agree with what you said. It seems like most of the B1G has simple schemes that focus on execution. For example Cockeye, Wisconsin and Ohio State look the exact same week to week, but it seems like we overhaul everything. I am oversimplifying things, but just a general observation of mine.

We seem to have a wider tool box, but not the best use of those tools. This was one of the big reasons I really liked the Whipple hire. I felt like Frost was a really good offensive mind, but needed somebody to help in the execution of the scheme.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

People not executing is 110% coaching.

Or lack of talent. Or lack of experience. Just depends on the situation.

 

[slattimer]

How hard is it to teach zone blocking in high school?

This is a really hard question to answer, because it really depends on how you want to do it. How do you set it up, cov/uncov rules, do you use a count method, do you teach tracks, if you're teaching zone, I'm guessing you'll have an inside and outside variation, what are your aim points. That's why people major it in it.

But to me personally, it's not hard. We run 4-5 run schemes in a year. Our primary schemes are Tight Zone, Power/Counter (Same scheme in my world), and Pin and Pull. Then we run a super dumbed down wide zone (reckless reach). Tight Zone is the most intricate and has the most variation, rules, calls, etc. But once you load their toolbox, it's fool proof and players can really adjust on the fly. To me, it's not hard. But I'm bored and have kids testing today, so I'll hammer out how we do it.

#1 - Center ID. We used to do a count, threw it out. There are a couple ways of counting in zone, It's really good for ID overloads and when to push the count, but I've found at the HS, it's a waste of time and just confuses.
- Our center IDs Point or Box. That's it. Point in 4 down, he's uncovered, finds the PSLB. If it's odd, he's covered, It's Box.

#2 - After the ID, we make our calls and the guys upfront know to execute their "scan" Basically meaning, Is my call side gap open or closed, do I have a head up defender, is my backside gap open or closed. They will have one of those 3 scenarios, every single play. That's what sets our double teams in our Tight Zone. For us, it's a vertical push/displacement scheme. We're trying to hit frontside A to backside B.

#3 - OL make their calls starting with the frontside echoing to the backside to set their doubles, Ted or Todd, Gut, Cage, A, B, C then how we want our pod to block it. We use the same verbiage across our schemes as our doubles apply to our gap scheme stuff as well and our half-slide pass pro.

#4 - The basics of it are this, If I have a man in my call side gap or head up, I've got a base block and I may get help if communicated. My tech doesn't really change. If I have a man in my backside gap, I'm helping my backside teammate to the LB I probably have in my call side gap and/or head up.

#5 - We have a few basic calls, our base call is wedge 90 - technique for our vertical double, near knees to crotch. We also have jack and hip, both techs for executing a gallop and violent flipper/shiver to knock the DL into a gap. Then we have our fold (Fred) call where we will execute a pin technique with one OL, and quick skip pull by the backside OL of the call.

That's how we teach our Tight Zone at the high school level. Our Wide zone is stupid simple. We try to rip reach our gap with reckless abandon and at all costs.

Here's a couple screen shots of our TZ from our OL playbook I've used for several years

 

[slattimer]

I acknowledge you're a shit load smarter than me but we may just differ in opinion on the blocking thing. I understand there's technique and skill to blocking, but you also have to want to block and take pride in blocking, which is another thing entirely, and I don't think that should be difficult.


Now, I do thank you for putting all that out there. I've read @Faux Sean Callahan say something similar, and that's probably what I've learned to hate about Frost's offense, atleast the Frost/Martinez offense. Too many options, not good enough at any of them to be really effective. Sounds great on paper, but tough to apply. Kind of like Husker Power mixed with Oregon Speed. Sounds great on paper, been tough to apply. I guess that goes back to Frost wanting to be the smartest guy in the room and trying to out scheme everyone, instead of just out executing everyone. I get it, and it has showed.

Just because I have a lot of experience in this matter doesn't make me smarter. I've just had a lot more years in it, and the way I do things/teach things, will be different than what others do. That's the nature of coaching.

To me, yes, it's nice to have some ass kicker that wants to block and takes pride in blocking. That's most offensive lineman. So to me, what separates the OL is technique within scheme, and understanding of the scheme and how they fit in as a whole. That's what leads to confidence. A confident OL is a good OL. What makes a good OL a truly great OL, is one that can put all of those things together, and is a nasty, fucking asshole.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

This is a really hard question to answer, because it really depends on how you want to do it. How do you set it up, cov/uncov rules, do you use a count method, do you teach tracks, if you're teaching zone, I'm guessing you'll have an inside and outside variation, what are your aim points. That's why people major it in it.

But to me personally, it's not hard. We run 4-5 run schemes in a year. Our primary schemes are Tight Zone, Power/Counter (Same scheme in my world), and Pin and Pull. Then we run a super dumbed down wide zone (reckless reach). Tight Zone is the most intricate and has the most variation, rules, calls, etc. But once you load their toolbox, it's fool proof and players can really adjust on the fly. To me, it's not hard. But I'm bored and have kids testing today, so I'll hammer out how we do it.

#1 - Center ID. We used to do a count, threw it out. There are a couple ways of counting in zone, It's really good for ID overloads and when to push the count, but I've found at the HS, it's a waste of time and just confuses.
- Our center IDs Point or Box. That's it. Point in 4 down, he's uncovered, finds the PSLB. If it's odd, he's covered, It's Box.

#2 - After the ID, we make our calls and the guys upfront know to execute their "scan" Basically meaning, Is my call side gap open or closed, do I have a head up defender, is my backside gap open or closed. They will have one of those 3 scenarios, every single play. That's what sets our double teams in our Tight Zone. For us, it's a vertical push/displacement scheme. We're trying to hit frontside A to backside B.

#3 - OL make their calls starting with the frontside echoing to the backside to set their doubles, Ted or Todd, Gut, Cage, A, B, C then how we want our pod to block it. We use the same verbiage across our schemes as our doubles apply to our gap scheme stuff as well and our half-slide pass pro.

#4 - The basics of it are this, If I have a man in my call side gap or head up, I've got a base block and I may get help if communicated. My tech doesn't really change. If I have a man in my backside gap, I'm helping my backside teammate to the LB I probably have in my call side gap and/or head up.

#5 - We have a few basic calls, our base call is wedge 90 - technique for our vertical double, near knees to crotch. We also have jack and hip, both techs for executing a gallop and violent flipper/shiver to knock the DL into a gap. Then we have our fold (Fred) call where we will execute a pin technique with one OL, and quick skip pull by the backside OL of the call.

That's how we teach our Tight Zone at the high school level. Our Wide zone is stupid simple. We try to rip reach our gap with reckless abandon and at all costs.

Here's a couple screen shots of our TZ from our OL playbook I've used for several years

View attachment 9071

View attachment 9072

This is awesome. Thanks for going into this detail.

 

[Pipe Line]

Just because I have a lot of experience in this matter doesn't make me smarter. I've just had a lot more years in it, and the way I do things/teach things, will be different than what others do. That's the nature of coaching.

To me, yes, it's nice to have some ass kicker that wants to block and takes pride in blocking. That's most offensive lineman. So to me, what separates the OL is technique within scheme, and understanding of the scheme and how they fit in as a whole. That's what leads to confidence. A confident OL is a good OL. What makes a good OL a truly great OL, is one that can put all of those things together, and is a nasty, fucking asshole.

I agree on all fronts. Know what you're doing, be confident in what you're doing, and take pride in what you're doing. My personal opinion, is that WRs in today's game simply want the ball more than they want to block, and that is amplified when you're on a losing team and are asked to care more about the name on the front instead of the name on the back, when ego says the individual could do more than is being asked.

 

[alt f4]

Thats fucking awesome. I'm sure the Potatoes on RSS ate that up. Digging the Palm Trees. Is this a new Parody Acct someone has making fun of Dean? Would be great if we could get FauxPelini on tPB

It's my account that I know have a couple other guys who post on it from time to time. Mostly it's me trolling Dean or other, which Dean knows and actually joins in from time to time.

 

[DuckSker]

The "swing" pass thing on RSS drives me crazy. It's not a big deal, but there is a common football vernacular out there and it grinds the fuck out of my gears.

First play of Illinois game 2 years ago completely soured me and most husker fans on the “swing” type plays. It’s sad because its really effective when ran correctly.

Frost deciding to dial it up with a 35 mph headwind on the first play of the game and your backup QB in is a different story though. Quite frankly he should have been fired on the spot

 

[Pipe Line]

First play of Illinois game 2 years ago completely soured me and most husker fans on the “swing” type plays. It’s sad because its really effective when ran correctly.

Frost deciding to dial it up with a 35 mph headwind on the first play of the game and your backup QB in is a different story though. Quite frankly he should have been fired on the spot

Was that Minnesota 2020 with Wandale that was like a 15 yard loss on the first play with the swing?

 

[slattimer]

First play of Illinois game 2 years ago completely soured me and most husker fans on the “swing” type plays. It’s sad because its really effective when ran correctly.

Frost deciding to dial it up with a 35 mph headwind on the first play of the game and your backup QB in is a different story though. Quite frankly he should have been fired on the spot

Yeah, situational awareness...and then having it in your opening script...have to be able to adjust in those situations.

 

[DuckSker]

Was that Minnesota 2020 with Wandale that was like a 15 yard loss on the first play with the swing?

I’m thinking of the backwards pass/fumble recovery i believe McCaffrey was QB

Edit: it was bubble off an rpo not a HB swing

 

[Pipe Line]

I’m thinking of the backwards pass/fumble recovery i believe McCaffrey was QB

Edit: it was bubble off an rpo not a HB swing

No you’re right. There was also a swing pass to start a cold one in 2020 that I think was against Minnesota that went fuckin terrible as well