Opinions on the Option

[slattimer]

Yeah, not sure I agree with this. I know that CC implemented a lot more pistol stuff this last year and their staff credits that for being able to include more RPO stuff and to improve their running game (since you're not giving info away pre-snap). A big part of what Coastal bases its scheme around is speed option and a lot of what they're doing w/ their backfield action is trying to give extra time for blockers to get on their guy. I'm sure there is some true triple stuff that they run, but I think a lot of it is window dressing. Don't know that anyone outside of the CCU offense knows how much of their offense is fake dive action, true triple, and RPO, and that's by design.

Some good info on it here if you have a subscription. https://theathletic.com/2410223/202...-by-storm-analyzing-the-chanticleers-offense/

I also meant that Nebraska being in the pistol has nothing to do with what CC does....they aren't taking those concepts

 

[Pipe Line]

Being in the pistol more has nothing to do with what CC does. But I have heard through a reliable source the staff met with another college staff that is well versed in spread option concepts/triple style football.

I’m husked.....

2 questions to confirm that I think I know what you’re saying.

1. by “the staff met with another staff” you do mean our staff correct?

2. “Spread option/Triple style” does this mean like a more modern version of the 97 offense where Frost was in the gun quite a bit more than previous seasons in the 90s? I’m more of a visual learner so when I see video clips compared to words it helps me I understand.

 

[slattimer]

I’m husked.....

2 questions to confirm that I think I know what you’re saying.

1. by “the staff met with another staff” you do mean our staff correct?

2. “Spread option/Triple style” does this mean like a more modern version of the 97 offense where Frost was in the gun quite a bit more than previous seasons in the 90s? I’m more of a visual learner so when I see video clips compared to words it helps me I understand.

I wasn't very clear in my post.

1. The NU staff met with another collegiate staff.
2. Spread/Triple style, I mean this team runs similar actual triple option concepts from the gun, plus some really good QB run game stuff. Nebraska was always a double-option when they ran it in the 90s.

 

[Black Dean]

You won't have any accounts left on RSS?

Haha surprisingly I never had multiple accounts

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

You can watch who they read and who is unblocked to determine if it's window dressing or not. There's "some" true triple....There is a lot. They're the only team that arc releases their tackles when they run mid triple. A big part of their scheme is belly g and belly c with how good their C is, and mid triple. I don't care what the athletic says in basing their offense around speed option...that just isn't true. CC's coach has a background in the flexbone, and you can tell watching them play.

That's fine in the RPO game. As I mentioned, they're basically a flexbone team from the spread and mix in RPO concepts.

For sure--obviously you know more about this shit than I do. I've seen a lot of debate on how much true triple they run. For sure you're 100% right that Chadwell borrowed a lot of triple gun concepts. Straight flexbone out of the gun is pretty much what they were running at Charleston Southern, and I see them running a lot less where they're reading two guys in the run game. RPO concepts have really turbocharged what they're able to do since you don't have any idea play to play whether the dive action is setting up an RPO (and at what level of defense), option to the outside, trap constraint, PAP, ect. They get really fun w/ it with how they build in vertical passes to their backs off of their core plays. Some of their backfield misdirection is pretty nutty.

Would check out that Athletic article tho. Dude sat down with the CCU OC so good perspective/info in there.

 

[Pipe Line]

I wasn't very clear in my post.

1. The NU staff met with another collegiate staff.
2. Spread/Triple style, I mean this team runs similar actual triple option concepts from the gun, plus some really good QB run game stuff. Nebraska was always a double-option when they ran it in the 90s.

All good.

and again, I think I already know the answer to this, but what kind of addition makes it triple option? Just the option of another skill player getting the ball? Isn’t that technically what we’ve already been doing under Frost?

 

[slattimer]

All good.

and again, I think I already know the answer to this, but what kind of addition makes it triple option? Just the option of another skill player getting the ball? Isn’t that technically what we’ve already been doing under Frost?

What I mean when I'm saying triple is traditional, dive back & pitch back with the pitch back being in the backfield at some point.

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

If you want to watch some true, straight-up triple option out of the gun like slat slat is talking about, watch Charleston Southern's offense here.

 

[Pipe Line]

What I mean when I'm saying triple is traditional, dive back & pitch back with the pitch back being in the backfield at some point.

Understood. Do you see Frost doing that more this year based on what we know from this board?

 

[Pipe Line]

If you want to watch some true, straight-up triple option out of the gun like slat slat is talking about, watch Charleston Southern's offense here.

I can get behind that

 

[slattimer]

Understood. Do you see Frost doing that more this year based on what we know from this board?

No.

 

[Kaladin]

Other teams do this thing where they like, give the ball to their running back, and then the running back runs for a really long touchdown

I wish we could that

 

[Pipe Line]

No.

Understood

 

[Chi7397]

So a few thoughts, questions, rebuttals....


1. A lot of people do say, "it wouldn't work long term" or "it just wouldn't work" but why wouldn't it work? Wouldn't it make more sense to run a power run based offense in the Big 10 where it's about physicality instead of pretty boy smoke and mirrors spread offense?

2. Atleast off the top of my head, the only 3 teams I can think of that really run what I would call a Spread Offense, would be KC, BAL, and SEA. Now I'm not crazy knowledgeable about X's and O's and I'll admit that, but A LOT more NFL teams I feel like still operate under center in more of that "pro style" offense than they do with a dual threat out of the shot gun. Atleast until more guys like Pat Mahomes take over the NFL that is.

3. Isn't the whole concept of an offense to get really good at the basics over time, and then get really good at expanding on those basics over time? I know we're struggling with the spread, but I think the same concept applies. Plus, if it comes with winning, you'd think you'd want to keep learning more and expanding and getting better at what's making you successful?

4. I know the question comes up with receivers and how they are less needed and QBs and all that. I personally think Adrian Martinez would make a sick option QB, assuming he can get back to making decisive reads and decisive running again. Running in his strength one he makes the decision. Also think Luke would be dynamic in that role too if he were to pick up a few more lbs first. Still have to recruit elite receivers regardless because you can't run the ball every play for 60 minutes. And honestly, with only about 30% throwing, if you're reliable you're just about guaranteed you'll get the ball every time it's thrown.

Your point #4 is the big problem with speculating on this - you assume AMart would agree to play as an option QB and I’d be willing to bet he would not, nor would anyone else with NFL potential/hopes.

I know how much you miss the 90s, but the problem isn’t scheme and returning to Osborne’s offense (which would be radically different today if Osborne were still coaching because he evolved with the times) isn’t going to fix it.

 

[Pipe Line]

Your point #4 is the big problem with speculating on this - you assume AMart would agree to play as an option QB and I’d be willing to bet he would not, nor would anyone else with NFL potential/hopes.

I know how much you miss the 90s, but the problem isn’t scheme and returning to Osborne’s offense (which would be radically different today if Osborne were still coaching because he evolved with the times) isn’t going to fix it.

Hard to argue the NFL part I’ll admit that. I guess, hypothetically, if you’re recruiting to that system, it’s not like you don’t throw the ball ever. Probably not nearly enough to be considered a serious pro QB prospect, but it’s not like it doesn’t happen in that system. But, you make a good point. I do think it would work well though in college, which is what the majority of us care about, if you can find that QB who just cares about winning now and isn’t 100% focused on the league quite yet when he comes in.

 

[Chi7397]

Hard to argue the NFL part I’ll admit that. I guess, hypothetically, if you’re recruiting to that system, it’s not like you don’t throw the ball ever. Probably not nearly enough to be considered a serious pro QB prospect, but it’s not like it doesn’t happen in that system. But, you make a good point. I do think it would work well though in college, which is what the majority of us care about, if you can find that QB who just cares about winning now and isn’t 100% focused on the league quite yet when he comes in.

maybe so, though I don’t know if there are many truly talented kids without an interest in making the league so you’re knee capping yourself on the recruiting front by running this system.

there are many, many reasons beyond the scheme why Nebraska can’t replicate its success from the 90s even if it attempted to return to its old offensive identity.

 

[Pipe Line]

maybe so, though I don’t know if there are many truly talented kids without an interest in making the league so you’re knee capping yourself on the recruiting front by running this system.

there are many, many reasons beyond the scheme why Nebraska can’t replicate its success from the 90s even if it attempted to return to its old offensive identity.

I’ll try my best to put what I’m thinking in words but yeah I think it’s a combo of you’d literally have to find a QB who cares about winning in college A LOT, and for Frost to basically not care about sending QBs to the league anymore and just only want them to win in college. Cause I mean you’d be hard pressed to convince someone that Frost would have made it to the league as a QB running that system. And it’s a damn shame Crouch was so gung ho about being a QB in the league based on what he could do as a skill guy

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

I feel like the difference in the QB position now vs. 20 years ago is night and day. There's just a completely different expectation for running ability/athleticism at the QB position these days. Seems like any athlete who has some throwing ability wants to play QB. We used to be one of the final teams for every running QB and could take some of those borderline guys and turn them into WRs. Now your dual threat is at the top of almost everyone's board. Maybe you have more success with a Luke type that has more limited arm talent, but I feel like you'd really struggle recruiting against a spread system that offers the ability to sling it. Well-executed power football will never be obsolete IMO. If anything, it's going to be more effective to run that shit b/c fewer people do it. You're just at an even bigger disadvantage recruiting to a 90s scheme now than you are today when you could just go dozens of places and play video game football.

Big problem as well in the beating you take as a quarterback in that offense. Huge risk at your most important position.