Opinions on the Option

[Jim14510]

Soooo hear me out.....could we run spread from under center when we pass, and also run the option and do all the running plays under the same offense?

What does under center have to do with it?

 

[Jim14510]

Soooo hear me out.....could we run spread from under center when we pass, and also run the option and do all the running plays under the same offense?

I don't have a problem running the old style option every once in a while. We've done it against Ohio State the last two years. Its a quirky change-up.

 

[Ext. 55]

It was great

But you cannot find the personnel to run it.


Was.

Was Great.

This...Don't believe you can be successful finding the talent for it.

I guess you could look to Georgia Tech who I believe still runs the triple option and see how it works there. In turn Army/Navy run the flexbone...maybe we go that rout.

 

[Alcaus]

Soooo hear me out.....could we run spread from under center when we pass, and also run the option and do all the running plays under the same offense?

Cam got you fucking shook lol

I get it

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I don't have a problem running the old style option every once in a while. We've done it against Ohio State the last two years. Its a quirky change-up.

It kind of rustles my Wilsons that it's a quirky one off wrinkle instead of something they use more regularly. Why bother putting it in to run against the best team on the schedule and then never go back to it?

 

[Jim14510]

It kind of rustles my Wilsons that it's a quirky one off wrinkle instead of something they use more regularly. Why bother putting it in to run against the best team on the schedule and then never go back to it?

I would like to see it more often than we have. At least until other teams scheme against it and it starts sucking.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

This...Don't believe you can be successful finding the talent for it.

I guess you could look to Georgia Tech who I believe still runs the triple option and see how it works there. In turn Army/Navy run the flexbone...maybe we go that rout.

GT transitioned out of it when they hired Collins. I think you'd run the triple option to make up for deficits in talent, which is why I'd entertain Monken or Coach Ken at Nebraska personally

 

[Jim14510]

This...Don't believe you can be successful finding the talent for it.

I guess you could look to Georgia Tech who I believe still runs the triple option and see how it works there. In turn Army/Navy run the flexbone...maybe we go that rout.

Georgia Tech fired their coach that ran it a few years ago.

 

[TrentMilfer]

Georgia Tech fired their coach that ran it a few years ago.

Paul Johnson retired I believe

 

[Jim14510]

Paul Johnson retired I believe

Yes sorry. He did ok. He was 83-60 while at GT. Two 11-3 seasons.

 

[...TrueColors...]

Yes sorry. He did ok. He was 83-60 while at GT. Two 11-3 seasons.

Here’s the thing though.. with the vertical threats PJ had on the field, he still considered his offense a “spread option” offense.

@slattimer can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe many consider the birth of the “spread” to be when Bill Walsh took the fullback off the field *gasp* and replaced it with another WR. It created an additional vertical threat on the field and it removed a player from the box, forcing the defense to “spread” out. I believe the word spread to refer to what the offense makes the defense do.

 

[slattimer]

Here’s the thing though.. with the vertical threats PJ had on the field, he still considered his offense a “spread option” offense.

@slattimer can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe many consider the birth of the “spread” to be when Bill Walsh took the fullback off the field *gasp* and replaced it with another WR. It created an additional vertical threat on the field and it removed a player from the box, forcing the defense to “spread” out. I believe the word spread to refer to what the offense makes the defense do.

Many consider the flexbone a spread option offense because it has 4 vertical threats. Basically. You can throw 4 verts.

 

[Pipe Line]

Getting an OL coach that could teach IZ/OZ, as well as Milt did would make any offense go. Could Frost teach that system that Osborne ran, possibly? He'd have better insight in it than most, but he had what...3-4 years in it. Not exactly a long time to become an expert in the coaching world, not saying it isn't possible to do.

Would it be effective today, it could be. #1, it's drastically different than almost any team runs. But DL are bigger and freakier than ever too.

I'm going to try to piece together this response the best I can as I'm not very knowledgeable in X's and O's.

I think what puts Frost in a unique position with this is that he not only was on the team in the 90s, but was the starting QB for 2 years with it, so he does essentially have to know, atleast offensively, Osborne's playbook pretty well to run it. Base plays, audibles, different packages, details, "wrinkles" you name it, the guy had to know it to play at the level he did with that offense. I think that's what qualifies him to teach it, personally. And anything he doesn't remember, spend the winter with Osborne, while he can, to go over everything and maybe go back through some things he may have forgotten. Although if he can really do the things in film study like he said he could do in some interviews, I don't think you really forget that stuff.

Now, also, Frost doesn't have to do all of it. He doesn't have to teach all of it. I like what Greg Austin has done so far so I'd like to keep him around. Hypothetically, maybe Austin joins Frost in meeting with Osborne and going over things that Tom and Milt did back in the day to make that machine run. Unless Austin already knows those concepts, which he very well might from his playing days here.

Only adjustment I would make, is I would find a way to bring in one of the service academy guys that already runs a form of that offense under center, to help with the transition. Unless there's an upgrade somewhere out there in college football?

 

[Pipe Line]

1. I guess it depends on what level of success you classify "working" as. If you want Big10 West levels of success (i.e. trips to the B10 CCG every few years and OSU beating you down before heading to the CFP) then I think an option offense could work. But it's just too one-dimensional in my opinion. If it was feasible in today's game don't you think other teams would be doing it?
2. Ironically you've listed 3 of the best offenses in the NFL. I'd also include GB, CHI, and others. Are you talking about a spread specific offense or one that operates out of shotgun? I'd agree that most NFL offenses don't solely run spread but most incorporate it and many are west coast style, shotgun oriented offenses.
3. I think Frosts offense is what he knows best. If he can't teach this offense to the team is he going to have a better time teaching one from 23 years ago?
4. I think Adrian would be interesting in an option offense but I don't get the feeling that he or Luke have the "feel" when it comes to option football. They don't have great decision making and Adrian likes to fumble the ball.

Fun to think about but I don't see it as a realistic move. Nothing is more fun than a perfectly timed option pitch where the QB takes the hit and the RB takes it to the house.

1. No I don't think other teams would be doing it even if they could or thought they could. Mainly because these spread offenses are a bunch of eye candy and look cool and exciting and fun an score a million points. It's "sexy'" and attractive. As we all know, the option offense is not sexy. Yeah ya know I guess if I'm being honest, I would be satisfied with basically a Wisconsin role for about 5 years, smash mouthing our way to the Big 10 title game and putting up a fight against Ohio State, yeah I can be happy with that for a while. But, as the way competitors work, we want more. In the long run, no, I'd hope Frost, like Osborne, could get good enough with it and continue to get better players for it and just continue to get better overall with it to get back to a national level with it. I think the fact that literally no one else runs that form of offense, that's relevant, at all, could allow that to happen, yes.

2. Good points! more teams coming to mind, AZ as well. Definitely becoming more of a thing sure, no doubt there. I guess I'm talking about pure shot gun. Most passing now days is basically all forms of "spread offense" right? Run different routes and schemes and layers and whatever to get guys open or certain guys open. That's what passing is. Don't obviously have to completely eliminate shotgun as of course Frost and Tommie still operated out of the shotgun sometimes, but just not 100% of the time. Does that make sense?

3. Really no argument there, as he's been doing it really for the past decade or so. But I think with a lot of things that you know really well, and we've done it a few times in his tenure as HC, you never really forget it. I think something that needs to be addressed is it that he for some reason can't teach this offense right now, or is it just not clicking for some of the players? I'm not a math guy, and am horrid at Algebra. The best Algebra teacher in the world can teach it to me and odds are I still won't understand it. Just the way I'm wired.

4. I do think you're probably correct long term on that. I think they can probably get comfortable with base stuff for their remaining career here. I'll bet Luke has enough time obviously with him only being a R/S Freshman, but I think if you were to do it, you'd have to get Logan starting those timing pitches like......a month from now.

 

[Pipe Line]

#1 - Pretty Boy smoke and mirrors spread offense grinds the living fuck out of my gears. I'll just get that out of the way 1st. Many offenses are zone based. They use the exact same principles that Milt Tenopir taught in Nebraska's hay day running Inside and Outside zone to death. This notion that you need to be under center to play physical football, frankly, is just wrong.

#2 - More and more NFL teams are operating out of the spread. You listed 3, there's many more, Carolina, Arizona, Houston, Chicago, New Orleans, etc., etc.

#3 - Yes, that is true for any offense. Just because you're in the spread, I, bone, flexbone, wing-t, etc, etc, etc, does not change that. The nuances in Osborne's offense was just as multiple as a spread offense can be. The only real difference is in the RPO game.

#4 - IMO, Luke would be a better QB in Osborne's system, the PAP game would fit his arm strength level, not saying Martinez couldn't do it. Nebraska runs the ball at a clip right now from a Twitter state I saw today, one of the highest in the country.

1. I do think it works, honestly I do. My thoughts have changed though in the last few years in that I think you need elite talent at every skill position to make it work the way Frost wants it to work. Which is fine, but we're not at that spot right now. Those kids go to tOSU if they're coming to the Big 10 right now. And based on where we're at in the Frost tenure, I don't think he can buy enough time to play that long haul game anymore in order to convince those high end recruits that tOSU gets and say "here's the progress". So then what's the difference then if being under center doesn't matter? Is it strictly having the athletes and the talent to make that happen? I say yes. As I'm much more of a believer of you need the athletes regardless to make elite things happen, more so than elite coaches. But, that's up for debate.

2. Sorry those were the first 3 that popped in my head at the time. New England also with Cam.

3. So I think I know the answer to this but then why go shotgun 100% of the time if it's basically the same thing? Just to create those confusing pre snap motions and run guys everywhere across the line for confusion? Seems like a waste of time when you're in the red zone. For RPO, are you basically just replacing the RPO with the standard option pitch then? Or vice versa?

4. I honestly agree with that, simply due to his speed and quick decisions. I just think he'd need to pick up a few pounds in order to handle the beating long term. But, Eric Crouch wasn't a huge guy either and he did it just fine.

 

[Pipe Line]

I would say you're wrong. Majority of teams basically run the spread without the qb run option.

You sure? I feel like a lot still run a good mix of shotgun/under center.

 

[Pipe Line]

What does under center have to do with it?

Nothing I guess. Feels good?

 

[Pipe Line]

I

I don't have a problem running the old style option every once in a while. We've done it against Ohio State the last two years. Its a quirky change-up.

I guess why not do it more and make it part of the offense?

 

[Pipe Line]

Cam got you fucking shook lol

I get it

haha I did not trust that move to put him back in against Cockeye in the second half but no he didn't. I trust him, I honestly do. I'm no stranger to struggles and stressful ass sports situations so I get what he's going through.

 

[Pipe Line]

GT transitioned out of it when they hired Collins. I think you'd run the triple option to make up for deficits in talent, which is why I'd entertain Monken or Coach Ken at Nebraska personally

If for some reason Frost ever did do it, I think you hire Coach Ken immediately. Doesn't have to be OC, but give him an important role in that transition.