I would only seriously discuss this here: Are there coaches/staff whose politics alienate players?

[10InchCorncob]

Don't think conservative is the right term here. We have coaches who are open about their support for a "leader" who is openly antagonistic toward the majority of people for whom these coaches are responsible. That's a very reaI problem and isn't a "safe space" issue at all.

This isn't a conservative vs liberal, republican vs democrat issue...this is a self-awareness issue. I'm even more concerned if we have people walking around North Stadium that can't read the room. Hell, even Nick Saban was out there marching with his players. Billy B turned down an medal of freedom recently. These are coaches that win and win frequently.

 

[huskerj12]

Some weirdo on RSS recently kept shitposting about how our players don't feel comfortable because so many people "wear camo and listen to country music" which is obviously dumb, *BUT* I do wonder how much the public image of the program fits into things. In 2017 I remember watching that "Rise & Conquer" video series they did at UCF and thinking the program seemed like so much fun to be a part of. Pickup basketball games, cookouts and pool parties, softball games between the players and coaches, the image they projected to the world was "we work our asses off on the field and then have a blast together." I don't think Frost and the gang stumbled into that by accident or forgot how important it was to their success.

First and foremost, I know winning makes everything fun and I'm not discounting that, and I'm sure we have plenty of that stuff going on here as well and if we broadcast it to the world while the on-field results sucked it would be a bad look. But since coming from UCF to NU, Frost and the program itself have taken on a different kind of persona that yes, includes a lot of camo hats and country-ish vibes, and chew, and talk of walk-ons, and a look of detached stress/misery on the sideline and in every press conference.

None of that has a specific tie to politics, but I do wonder if Frost is in his own head about trying to meld the "high flying fun-loving UCFast" persona that he built when there was no pressure, with the "hometown country boy done good" persona that he wants to reflect the state and his roots, and I could imagine that it could feel somewhat confusing to some players as well. We hear so much about the culture on and off the field, but I wonder if it still can't take hold because Frost is still a little lost in the context of everything himself.

Also thanks @Johannes de Silentio for starting this thread, I wonder about stuff like this quite a bit and there's no way RSS would be able to actually handle the convo haha

 

[Jim14510]

Pickup basketball games, cookouts and pool parties, softball games between the players and coaches, the image they projected to the world was "we work our asses off on the field and then have a blast together."

They can't do those things because of the dirty liberals unnecessary lockdowns.



JK

Think that part of it is pretty simple.
Higher expectations & losing vs lower expectations & winning

Edit: you pretty much said the same thing if I kept reading but I don't think its any more than that.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I hate you for your politics and I'm not even sure what they are.

Government should stick to doing things that move us toward the Pareto frontier

 

[alt f4]

Do I think I think Coach Frost and his staff are racist or have seen racist behavior from Coach Frost or his staff? No

Have I seen things that could be perceived as racist in the eyes of a beholder? Yes

Have I heard players talk about race as an issue? Yes. Several occasions.


I think the issue the staff and team are running into is they don't perceive the things they do as "racist" and something that would create divide. In a hypersensitive culture today every little thing is under a microscope. Now we're in territory that you're guilty by association or having the same general interests of a perceived racist. We live in Nebraska and kids from the Midwest and other heavy conservative areas get that because it's country music, camo, hunting, and flag flying it doesn't make one racist. However, someone from outside that culture might perceive it differently - it's the guilt by association.

From the perceived lack of support on the BLM movement, the people the staff and coaches follow on twitter, playing Fox News in which every player walks past to and from practice, having 8/11 or 9/11 starters on offense being white, losing (firing) well liked black coaches and replacing them with white coaches, and (I know this next stuff is extremely petty) blasting country music at practice, the camo, the hunting.

I do believe Scott is trying to establish a midwestern, hard working culture - whatever that definition may be or what it may look like. Kids from outside the region might not fit in or agree with it, however some will. Going back to my days at NWMSU, which is in a very hick/rural/racist area we had kids from East St. Louis, KC, Texas, and the sticks of Cockeye/MO/NE/KS. It was a culture shock to those kids from out of the region and some left because of it, others accepted that once you knew a person, him driving a jacked up 4wd truck, listening to country music while shooting shit wasn't racist. Other viewed it as racist. Over the summer I read a post of a former college student at NWMSU who felt fearful for her life every time she saw someone in a truck or heard someone blasting country music. She associated that with racist behavior, so much so, she called the police on several occasions. The responses were what you'd expect in today's climate, conservative white people lit her up for thinking this way, liberals and other blacks were compassionate and understood what she went through.

What the coaches need to do is reassess the culture and their perceived behaviors to at least be aware, address the situations, and be sincere about it. Hire at least 2 more black counselors for the team so that any issues, no matter how small, can be brought up and addressed.

 

[Havoc34]

Do I think I think Coach Frost and his staff are racist or have seen racist behavior from Coach Frost or his staff? No

Have I seen things that could be perceived as racist in the eyes of a beholder? Yes

Have I heard players talk about race as an issue? Yes. Several occasions.


I think the issue the staff and team are running into is they don't perceive the things they do as "racist" and something that would create divide. In a hypersensitive culture today every little thing is under a microscope. Now we're in territory that you're guilty by association or having the same general interests of a perceived racist. We live in Nebraska and kids from the Midwest and other heavy conservative areas get that because it's country music, camo, hunting, and flag flying it doesn't make one racist. However, someone from outside that culture might perceive it differently - it's the guilt by association.

From the perceived lack of support on the BLM movement, the people the staff and coaches follow on twitter, playing Fox News in which every player walks past to and from practice, having 8/11 or 9/11 starters on offense being white, losing (firing) well liked black coaches and replacing them with white coaches, and (I know this next stuff is extremely petty) blasting country music at practice, the camo, the hunting.

I do believe Scott is trying to establish a midwestern, hard working culture - whatever that definition may be or what it may look like. Kids from outside the region might not fit in or agree with it, however some will. Going back to my days at NWMSU, which is in a very hick/rural/racist area we had kids from East St. Louis, KC, Texas, and the sticks of Cockeyes/MO/NE/KS. It was a culture shock to those kids from out of the region and some left because of it, others accepted that once you knew a person, him driving a jacked up 4wd truck, listening to country music while shooting shit wasn't racist. Other viewed it as racist. Over the summer I read a post of a former college student at NWMSU who felt fearful for her life every time she saw someone in a truck or heard someone blasting country music. She associated that with racist behavior, so much so, she called the police on several occasions. The responses were what you'd expect in today's climate, white people lit her up for thinking this way, liberals and other blacks were compassionate and understood what she went through.

What the coaches need to do is reassess the culture and their perceived behaviors to at least be aware, address the situations, and be sincere about it. Hire at least 2 more black counselors for the team so that any issues, no matter how small, can be brought up and addressed.

Do you know if anyone with any pull within the AD or university has actually said something to Frost about any of this? I got into an argument with some dipshits on RSS last week about buddy hiring more than just assistant coaches. Frost hired some of his closest friends to be on his support staff. My fear is there isn’t an objective kind of voice in the room telling him to consider rethinking some of his behaviors or habits in regards to what you posted about.

 

[Blackshirts_Win_'ships]

Do you know if anyone with any pull within the AD or university has actually said something to Frost about any of this? I got into an argument with some dipshits on RSS last week about buddy hiring more than just assistant coaches. Frost hired some of his closest friends to be on his support staff. My fear is there isn’t an objective kind of voice in the room telling him to consider rethinking some of his behaviors or habits in regards to what you posted about.

Goes well beyond the topic at hand...people who are never told no rarely outperform their God-given talents. They certainly don't succeed in hyper-competitive environments like CFB.

 

[Pipe Line]

I almost don't even know what the word "racist" means anymore because it's thrown around so much now.

 

[Jim14510]

Government should stick to doing things that move us toward the Pareto frontier

Pointless as it will never be achieved. Therefore, I shall continue to look at how politics can benefit me in the short term ignoring any long term affects.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

Pointless as it will never be achieved. Therefore, I shall continue to look at how politics can benefit me in the short term ignoring any long term affects.

Incremental improvements are acceptable even though we will never achieve the optimal in my view, but myopic self interest is an understandable approach to politics.

 

[Havoc34]

Incremental improvements are acceptable even though we will never achieve the optimal in my view, but myopic self interest is an understandable approach to politics.

Finding the balance between how things are and how they should, or could be, is the real struggle.

 

[Mood4NU]

Don't think conservative is the right term here. We have coaches who are open about their support for a "leader" who is openly antagonistic toward the majority of people for whom these coaches are responsible. That's a very reaI problem and isn't a "safe space" issue at all.

Just because you support someone for certain reason doesn’t mean you support all their positions in life . Shit I would have a lot fewer friends if that was the case

 

[Mood4NU]

The issue is when players feel they're treated differently because of those political view points. I DGAF what someone's politics are. Then again, I don't coach a bunch of kids from different backgrounds. The reality is that if this is perceived to be a race/political issue then it needs to be addressed. I've been a MASSIVE Frost defender for 3+ years. I'm starting to sour.

It's either that 1) We can't identify talent, 2) Our schemes are too complicated for most kids to get on the field, 3) We're bad at coaching, or 4) There's a rift in the program due to politics/race. It has to be one of those things.

What is more likely, that one(or more) of the above are true OR everyone's recruiting profile and vision is wrong on these kids and we get ALL the busts.
Year 1- I'll give Frost a pass because he didn't have much time to recruit
Year 2- He gets another pass because he's still turning the roster over
Year 3- Starting to get concerned that players whom could potentially be juniors are not seeing the field, not developed enough, "swimming in it", or are leaving the program.

There really hasn’t been that many that have left in the grand scheme of things. Those Miami kids weren’t going to stick here. It was a cultural mismatch . Otherwise who have we lost? Wandale? Tell his “handlers” to quit meddling & let the kid ball . Team > individual

 

[Pipe Line]

Just because you support someone for certain reason doesn’t mean you support all their positions in life . Shit I would have a lot fewer friends if that was the case

Post of the thread right there. Also sums up 2020.

 

[alt f4]

Do you know if anyone with any pull within the AD or university has actually said something to Frost about any of this? I got into an argument with some dipshits on RSS last week about buddy hiring more than just assistant coaches. Frost hired some of his closest friends to be on his support staff. My fear is there isn’t an objective kind of voice in the room telling him to consider rethinking some of his behaviors or habits in regards to what you posted about.

That I do not know. I would hope they have outside the inner group's perspective and most importantly someone who talks to, listens, and understands the player's thoughts and feelings. Whether you, I, or some random other fan agrees with that player, that's not up to us. Within the first 5 minutes of talking to a player once the season started he opened up and poured out about BLM, COVID, and stuck in Lincoln away from family and other students.

Just because you support someone for certain reason doesn’t mean you support all their positions in life . Shit I would have a lot fewer friends if that was the case

This is what people in the world need to understand. However, in today's climate, it's an agree with all or nothing thought most people have. There is no middle ground and it's getting worse.

 

[10InchCorncob]

There really hasn’t been that many that have left in the grand scheme of things. Those Miami kids weren’t going to stick here. It was a cultural mismatch . Otherwise who have we lost? Wandale? Tell his “handlers” to quit meddling & let the kid ball . Team > individual

Offense: Vedral, Greg Bell, Maurice Washington, McGriff, Darien Chase, Miles Jones, Jaevon McQuitty, Jaron Woodyard, Andre Hunt, Katerian LeGrone, Wandale Robinson, Jared Bubak,

Defense: Breon Dixon, Pernell Jefferson, Jordan Paup, Cam Jones, CJ Smith, Henry Gray, Jaiden Francois, Tony Butler, Moses Bryant, Isaiah Stalbird, Keem Green, Ronald Delancy, Keyshawn Green

This list was put together quickly. I may have missed some players or included some players that weren't recruited by Frost. Either way, we've essentially had 3 recruiting cycles under frost. Under those 3 cycles we've see 12 Offensive Skill players transfer. All of these players were guys that Nebraska fans talked up and expected to contribute at no point were people looking at the same on the list as they signed their LOI's and saying "Eh, he'll never see the field". All of the DB's. Keem Green, Delancy...All the RB/WR's...people were PUMPED when we signed these kids and now we're saying "Eh, didn't need them". That's the same with the 13 Defensive players.

Please someone tell me how we can expect to get back to competing for the Big10 West when 1/3 of our scholarship players are transferring out?

 

[Jim14510]

Incremental improvements are acceptable even though we will never achieve the optimal in my view, but myopic self interest is an understandable approach to politics.

I was attempting to be funny which I'm sure you understood.

To be serious for a rare minute I think moving to the Pareto optimization is the correct approach. I don't think anyone would seriously argue with that and understand what they're arguing. The real problem is measuring the changes and their potential effects. Two experts with zero personal gain either perceived or actual from the outcome of any change could come to different conclusions.

Then factor in that example as being non-existent. Meaning there is always a personal gain from the outcome. Then factor in whether or not those experts are qualified to measure that change. Then factor in that the vast majority of people voting for said change or person initiating the change are not qualified to analyze those experts analysis. Many many other issues along those lines.

Bottom line your politics for pareto optimization is garbage because there is no one in politics advocating for pareto optimization without selfish intentions.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I was attempting to be funny which I'm sure you understood.

To be serious for a rare minute I think moving to the Pareto optimization is the correct approach. I don't think anyone would seriously argue with that and understand what they're arguing. The real problem is measuring the changes and their potential effects. Two experts with zero personal gain either perceived or actual from the outcome of any change could come to different conclusions.

Then factor in that example as being non-existent. Meaning there is always a personal gain from the outcome. Then factor in whether or not those experts are qualified to measure that change. Then factor in that the vast majority of people voting for said change or person initiating the change are not qualified to analyze those experts analysis. Many many other issues along those lines.

Bottom line your politics for pareto optimization is garbage because there is no one in politics advocating for pareto optimization without selfish intentions.

You can account for selfish intentions. Your criticism on the basis of measurement and what we are trying to optimize is sound. My counter argument would be that we need to do way more policy experimentation, in areas that it can be done, to better understand how we are changing the world on well defined criteria while having to accept we can't account for all potential outcomes of said policy.

But moving to your argument about voters. That seems absolutely correct. Politics is ideological for most people and sure their ideologies are not well defined and they say they identify as something that they don't understand.

 

[Mood4NU]

Offense: Vedral, Greg Bell, Maurice Washington, McGriff, Darien Chase, Miles Jones, Jaevon McQuitty, Jaron Woodyard, Andre Hunt, Katerian LeGrone, Wandale Robinson, Jared Bubak,

Defense: Breon Dixon, Pernell Jefferson, Jordan Paup, Cam Jones, CJ Smith, Henry Gray, Jaiden Francois, Tony Butler, Moses Bryant, Isaiah Stalbird, Keem Green, Ronald Delancy, Keyshawn Green

This list was put together quickly. I may have missed some players or included some players that weren't recruited by Frost. Either way, we've essentially had 3 recruiting cycles under frost. Under those 3 cycles we've see 12 Offensive Skill players transfer. All of these players were guys that Nebraska fans talked up and expected to contribute at no point were people looking at the same on the list as they signed their LOI's and saying "Eh, he'll never see the field". All of the DB's. Keem Green, Delancy...All the RB/WR's...people were PUMPED when we signed these kids and now we're saying "Eh, didn't need them". That's the same with the 13 Defensive players.

Please someone tell me how we can expect to get back to competing for the Big10 West when 1/3 of our scholarship players are transferring out?

I don’t see many names in there I wish were still here. Washington hunt & legrone F’d themselves . Wandale is the only loss imo ... maybe a few of the freshman that never stepped on the field but like I said if their 1st concern is themselves they aren’t going to be a good fit . Like I said team 1st mentality

 

[10InchCorncob]

I don’t see many names in there I wish were still here. Washington hunt & legrone F’d themselves . Wandale is the only loss imo ... maybe a few of the freshman that never stepped on the field but like I said if their 1st concern is themselves they aren’t going to be a good fit . Like I said team 1st mentality

My point is that nobody said we didn't want these players while they were being recruited.

Maybe we can throw Omar Manning on the list as well? It's just very strange that we've missed on nearly every receiver we've brought in since Frost has shown up.

2018:
McGriff - Gone
LeGrone - LeGone
Williams - Gone
Watt - Gone
Hunt - Gone
Woodyard - Gone
Miles Jones - Gone
2019:
Houston - 0 catches
Nance - 0 catches
Wan'Dale - Gone
Chase - Gone
2020:
Betts - 12 catches, 131 yards, 1 TD
Nixon - 0 catches
Fleming - Gone
Brown - 3 catches, 41 yards
Manning - 0 catches

So we have given scholarships to 16 Wide Receivers over the past 3 years. 10 are no longer with the program. Out of the 6 left 2 of them have actually caught a ball in a game. The total production for all returning scholarship WR's is 15 catches, 172 yards, 1 Touchdown. That is absurd.

You can't say that every single one of these players has a "Me first" mentality. If they do, that's on the coaches for not putting in the effort to understand these kids before signing them. I've listen to Scott Frost say that they talk to each kid's family, pastor, 2 teachers, principal, guidance counselor, and family friend. Frost has said that they go through the past 3 years of social media posts and records. They know who these kids are before they step on campus. So the staff is selling a fake bill of goods to these kids OR they're bad at pulling in talent.

Also, I don't see Alabama having issues managing these personalities. Every single kid they're pulling in is the best play on every team they've played on until they get to Bama. They're the top players in the country and constantly getting told how great they are and how they're going to make it to the league. Bama keeps them at Bama unless they want them to move on. Bama has incredible talent 3 levels deep. Bama has players that want to win and win for the team.

I don't see a magic recipe for success with things being the way they are. How the hell are we supposed to "develop" talent if we can't even keep kids in the program. It's absurd.