Honestly, have you been that impressed with Rhule since he got here?

[HerbRedman]

I know we all are deep down in a state of shock and want to deny what our eyes are seeing, but we have enough talent to be 8-4. It isn't talent that's getting in the way. Indianus isn't 56-7 better talent wise. Illinois is actually a pretty good team and we had our chances. Right now we have a team that has no faith in their coaches. If you put a gun to their heads and hooked them up to an infallible lie detector it is my belief that you wouldn't be able to find a single blackshirt that wanted to play the schemes we played against Indianus. The fact that we don't utilize the true strengths of the 3-3-5- well my thoughts on this are well documented in another thread.

Agreed on the defensive scheme.

I'm back and forth on the talent though. Let's be honest, we've played 10 halves vs P4 competition and 7 of those halves were not good. We've got more evidence of the players being avg/mediocre than being good.

I for one WAY overestimated the talent level of this team. I think it's enough talent for 8-4 but not with no kicking game, and bad offensive scheme and DC who can't stop RPO.

I actually thought w some luck this team could be 9-3 or 10-2. But the talent is not there TBH.

 

[Sous Chef]

Agreed on the defensive scheme.

I'm back and forth on the talent though. Let's be honest, we've played 10 halves vs P4 competition and 7 of those halves were not good. We've got more evidence of the players being avg/mediocre than being good.

I for one WAY overestimated the talent level of this team. I think it's enough talent for 8-4 but not with no kicking game, and bad offensive scheme and DC who can't stop RPO.

I actually thought w some luck this team could be 9-3 or 10-2. But the talent is not there TBH.

Just remember in Corch Scrote's last year our defense didn't look like it had the talent to play ball either. Bill Buch didn't make them world beaters but he did make it look like they belonged on the same field most of the time.

 

[DrinkItIn]

Just remember in Corch Scrote's last year our defense didn't look like it had the talent to play ball either. Bill Buch didn't make them world beaters but he did make it look like they belonged on the same field most of the time.

After Chinander was let go, I agree the defense "seemed" to improve. However, Nebraska’s 2022 schedule was one of the easiest they’ve had in recent years, yet the team still struggled. Many of the teams they played were in down years.

Here are the final records of Nebraska's 2022 opponents:

Northwestern: 1-11
North Dakota (FCS): 7-5 (FCS record)
Georgia Southern: 6-7
Oklahoma: 6-7
Indianus: 4-8
Buttgers: 4-8
Purdoodoo: 8-6
Illinois: 8-5
Minnesota: 9-4
Michigan: 13-1
WiscyDicks: 7-6
Cockeye: 8-5

Outside of Michigan and Minnesota, many of Nebraska's 2022 opponents had mediocre or poor seasons, reinforcing just how manageable that schedule was. Despite that, Nebraska finished 4-8 and lots of rebuilding was needed by the new staff.

The Indianus game was still a fucking embarrassment, though, and really no excuse to get beat like that.

 

[HerbRedman]

Just remember in Corch Scrote's last year our defense didn't look like it had the talent to play ball either. Bill Buch didn't make them world beaters but he did make it look like they belonged on the same field most of the time.

All good my man. Philosophically, I'm just more of a Jimmies and Joe's guy. I think most of the hand wringing around position coaches is just message board fodder.

To win, I think you need elite level OC/DC and then you need elite recruiters at your position coach spots. The "technique" conversation is WAY overstated IMO. Let's be honest, Mickey Joseph was a top WR coach at LSU bc he recruited elite talent. That's 85% of it. Your top WR/RB/DB etc coaches in the SEC are elite bc they sign elite 5* recruits - it's not bc they discovered a magic technique that no one else knows.

That's why I'm not that interested in the fire Barthel, fire McGuire, etc conversation....I really only care if those guys are elite recruiters. All the rest is just a waste of time IMHO. A new WR coach or new RB coach isn't gonna revolutionize your program (unless they bring in elite recruits).

There's a reason top OC/DCs make 5x-7x than their position coaches. IOW we're getting fucked on offense bc Satterfield has set up an entire offensive scheme that is horrible. Changing Barthel out mid-season won't do what taters think it'll do. Not when your RBs suck like ours do. Satterfield is 90% of the problem bc the entire offense scheme & playbook is a failure.

 

[HCFord1]

not great bob. Bullock has had some howlers this yr as well.

That was play where I freaked out in the game thread about Banks being 6’4” 210 and getting tossed like a rag doll by a CB

 

[HerbRedman]

That was play where I freaked out in the game thread about Banks being 6’4” 210 and getting tossed like a rag doll by a CB

At this point I'm honestly wondering what perimeter blocking we saw Banks do on film at Wake Forest. I have a sneaking suspicion that we only looked at his pass catching & productivity #s.

If you're planning to implement a power running game in the coming season, you really should not be signing WRs that can't/won't perimeter block. This was a massive miss by our staff (the same staff that brought you Jeff Sims).

Now you're at the point where you've got a 5th yr SR who won't/can't do his job. Banks & Neyor are actually worse perimeter blockers than our less talented and younger WRs in 2023.

 

[Sous Chef]

At this point I'm honestly wondering what perimeter blocking we saw Banks do on film at Wake Forest. I have a sneaking suspicion that we only looked at his pass catching & productivity #s.

If you're planning to implement a power running game in the coming season, you really should not be signing WRs that can't/won't perimeter block. This was a massive miss by our staff (the same staff that brought you Jeff Sims).

Now you're at the point where you've got a 5th yr SR who won't/can't do his job. Banks & Neyor are actually worse perimeter blockers than our less talented and younger WRs in 2023.

I have an even worse suspicion that he was at least competent at perimeter blocking at Wake. I was actually trying to find a way to confirm or debunk that suspicion earlier today but it's beyond my search skills.

 

[HCFord1]

You guys think you're making good points, but you're also off base with your grasping and wavering.

The Rhule vs. rated teams stat is completely misleading due to the number of ranked teams he played in years one at two at Temple, Baylor, and Nebraska:

3 Ranked opponents in year one at Temple
4 ranked opponents in year one at Baylor
3 ranked opponents in year one at Nebraska

In year two at Baylor, he plays 4 ranked teams, all on the road.

The overall winning percentage of FBS head coaches not named Kirby Smart or Nick Saban, who have beaten ranked teams in year one of a new regime or who have a good record vs. ranked teams on the road, is well below 25% across the board.


@Dear_Leader, lives in World where he thinks things typed are fact. Let's break it down:

- THere is no history of "locker room culture" issues with Rhule in his stops at Temple, Baylor, and now Nebraska. If you want to equate being at the helm of the worst franchise in the NFL with Rhule's role, then you're an idiot.

- Limited pool of coaches who will work with him? LOL, Matt Rhule is WIDELY respected around College Football. There are hundreds dozens f Coaches who jump at the chance to work with Rhule.

- Now, the hiring of the inexperienced coaches is certainly a fault of Rhule, but when the man took the job at Nebraska, Mickey Joseph was going to be the WR Coach. That was pretty much a given. And then we all know what happened with Joseph. Rhule was left scrambling and may have mistakenly put some faith in his trust of the McGuire's.

- Nebraska's recruiting and development under Rhule, had ZERO to do with getting their asses handed to them by Indianus, and it had nothing do with the loss to Illinois. You can voice your displeasure of his philosophy and process, but its a separate discussion.


- I think his game management is a reflection of terrible QB play and an abomination surrounding special teams. Its really fucking hard to manage a game when you don't trust your kicker or your quarterback.


As for Cignetti "exposing Rhule," he exposed the staff in the sense that they have NO FUCKING CLUE how to stop the RPO. But if you think how Cignetti built this team is comparable to what Rhule could've done then you're just being naïve.

1. Cignetti, unlike Rhule had the luxury of bringing a bunch of highly productive and experienced players with him from a previous stop. He also showed up and already had a Senior laden offensive line in place with the same coach and blocking scheme. It will be REALLY fucking interesting to see what Cignetti does next season. He will either have a team with 17 new starters or he will take another job without the luxury of bringing in a bunch of transfers.


Now, here's where Rhule needs to wake the fuck up:

1. He doesn't just need to get rid of his OC, he needs to reevaluate his whole God Damn offensive philosophy. I'm not saying there need to be mass wholesale scheme changes. He doesn't need to go Air raid. He doesn't need to run that crazy ass UTEP scheme where they want to run 90 offensive plays per game. But he needs to adapt to modern football and understand that your defense isn't going to hold everyone to 13 points or less, and you can't just expect to be the most "physical team" that takes the field every game.

2. What the FUCK was he thinking this OFF SEASON with the Kicking situation? I KNOW for a fact that many of the highly recruited freshman are making 6 figures+ in NIL. Hell, Mozee's NIL offering for 2025 is almost double what he was going to make at Oregon, and that was before his dad ever took a job in Lincoln. Nebraska should've been able to target the the 10 best G5, FCS, or even other Power conference kickers and offered them a shit ton of money. They should started it before the Spring, and then it should've been ratcheted it up in the Summer when they knew Alvano was hurt.

3. Go call Mack Leftwich at Texas State, write him a check for $1.5 million dollars, and then offer NIL money to Chris Dawn, Jr, and Kole Wilson, two receivers from Texas State who run a 4.3s.

4. Offer 500k to 1 million in NIL to Devonte Ross from Troy and Ted Hurst from Georgia State



Lastly, hire some analyst who has spent the last few years facing the RPO and put together some type of plan to figure out how to stop it going forward.

Also, what happened to Nebraska at Indianus is reminiscent of Bo Pelini getting his defense exploited vs teams like WiscyDicks. It happens. Its about being unable to account for certain matchups and that will need to get fixed.


But if you guys can't see some of the good things Rhule has done, then you're just using bias to push a narrative:

1. He's brought professional organization and leadership to all levels of the program. The structure in place for Coach Mozee to build a staff of recruiters and scouts is incredible. Rhule has also built a pipeline between that network and Nebraska's NIL.

2. The number of very young players who are seeing the field early and actually producing is obvious. Are those dudes going to make mistakes? Yes. Will they take some lumps? Absolutely. And it could be painful at times, but development is key to the future of this program because its been a dumpster fire for so long.

3. Discipline is back in place after 8 straight seasons of being non existent under Reilly and Frost. The culture was flipped quickly from that aspect.


Lastly, I BET this team is able to respond with some resilency. I expect them to be competitive vs. Ohio State. Will they lose by 30? Yes, but it will feel a lot differently than the Indianus game. And I bet they end the season on a high note.


There are plenty of reasons to be pissed off Saturday, but you also need to calm down and realize this was always a 6-6 to 8-4 at best football team. Did I think they would lose by 50 to Indianus? No, but I said before the season started that they would lose at Indianus and would be 5-2 going into Ohio State.

They will be 5-3 leaving Ohio State.

I believe they beat UCLAbia, and then win 1 of the last 3 to go - 7-5 into a bowl game. And that;s progress. That's what Rhule does.

Thank you for typing all of this out. It’s everything I thought it myself while reading his post but didn’t have the time/energy to write up. @Dear_Leader is bringing a lot of conjecture into this thread and passing it off as established facts.

 

[HerbRedman]

I have an even worse suspicion that he was at least competent at perimeter blocking at Wake. I was actually trying to find a way to confirm or debunk that suspicion earlier today but it's beyond my search skills.

I know, bc you want to pin all our problems on McGuire 😜


Are you familiar with the WF/Clawson offense? It's very pass happy. They only ran for like 1500 yds in 2023.

Nebraska ran for 2100 yds in 2023.

We were told Rhule wanted to implement a violent, power running game in 2024. Any WRs you bring on needed to be capable of blocking in that scheme. I highly doubt Banks was asked to do the aggressive perimeter blocking we require in a Dave Clawson offense. Source: look at his blocking.

You want to pin this all on McGuire so bad! LOL

 

[Sous Chef]

I know, bc you want to pin all our problems on McGuire 😜


Are you familiar with the WF/Clawson offense? It's very pass happy. They only ran for like 1500 yds in 2023.

Nebraska ran for 2100 yds in 2023.

We were told Rhule wanted to implement a violent, power running game in 2024. Any WRs you bring on needed to be capable of blocking in that scheme. I highly doubt Banks was asked to do the aggressive perimeter blocking we require in a Dave Clawson offense. Source: look at his blocking.

You want to pin this all on McGuire so bad! LOL

Actually I want to know the truth. Or at least some semblance of the truth. In the end all bucks stop with Rhule. But lets flip this script. You say by their fourth year a player is who they are. I don't necessarily agree but for the sake of this dumb discussion I'll go with it. In that case I do know from searches that we can find plenty of film of Banks not being a lazy route runner and fighting for contested throws. We can see plenty of the opposite from his film while here at Nebraska. So apparently you can't learn good habits if you are that old but you can learn the bad ones. Doesn't fit your finished product theory too well.

My second point in this whole thing is lets take a look at the receivers as a whole. They are all guilty of the same deficiencies in their game as Banks other than Jacory. Hmm its almost like the same person is teaching these guys and they all have the same bad techniques. Weird. Why is it we never see IGC get any snaps at WR? At some point you'd think they would at least give him a shot. Unless he too is mysteriously uncoachable like the other players in that room.

I know you want to pin it all on the players so bad. LOL

 

[HerbRedman]

Actually I want to know the truth. Or at least some semblance of the truth. In the end all bucks stop with Rhule. But lets flip this script. You say by their fourth year a player is who they are. I don't necessarily agree but for the sake of this dumb discussion I'll go with it. In that case I do know from searches that we can find plenty of film of Banks not being a lazy route runner and fighting for contested throws. We can see plenty of the opposite from his film while here at Nebraska. So apparently you can't learn good habits if you are that old but you can learn the bad ones. Doesn't fit your finished product theory too well.

My second point in this whole thing is lets take a look at the receivers as a whole. They are all guilty of the same deficiencies in their game as Banks other than Jacory. Hmm its almost like the same person is teaching these guys and they all have the same bad techniques. Weird. Why is it we never see IGC get any snaps at WR? At some point you'd think they would at least give him a shot. Unless he too is mysteriously uncoachable like the other players in that room.

I know you want to pin it all on the players so bad. LOL

Sorry about the personal snipe.

I will give you this: if Banks was an amazing perimeter blocker at Wake Forest but he out of nowhere became a terrible perimeter blocker in 2024....then absolutely, fire the WR coach. You have to see how unlikely that is though, right? If he was great at it in yrs 1-4 why on earth would he decide to be terrible at it in yr 5? That literally makes zero sense. The MUCH more likely scenario is that it was never a huge emphasis for him at WF and we took a flyer on him anyway & he hasn't picked it up.

For NU, the perimeter blocking was good in 2023 and McGuire was the one teaching it. So it's hard to say he can't coach it because he clearly did last year. I don't have the stat but our 15+ yd runs were WAY higher in 2023 than this year. McGuire had the WRs perimeter blocking pretty darn well.


And just to clarify, I want Satterfield gone which means Barthel & McGuire will most likely be gone. Which is fine with me. I think the WR room has been bad this year and the WR coach is accountable to that. I'm not a huge fan of McGuire but I think he has good potential as a recruiter (which IMO is 85% of a WR coach's duty). And I give him big credit for recruiting Jacob Barney. But when your position group's play is this horrendous you can lose your job, absolutely.