Fixable vs. Non-Fixable

[Kaladin]

Who would you replace Ruud with? I think our record has more to do with local recruiting than anything. Maybe they need to adjust his recruiting responsibilities if he's not connecting well with local programs, but our ILB development seems to be well above average at this point.

I wouldn't want to adjust that defensive staff at all, honestly.

Probably have Chinander coach the ILB

 

[Pipe Line]

Moved to Nebraska pretty young but dad played for Illinois. I met his dad when he was in like 5th/6th grade. Think they had moved to Omaha within the last couple years.



That may have been part of it but they're going to Auburn/Oklahoma. Doubt competition is the #1 factor.

Yep. Both of those came from RSS. Think the Central kid info came from here a while back.

 

[Pipe Line]

Frost is just not a good coach at this level of football. Like others have mentioned, he was good against G5 schools b/c his UCF Teams could just out-athlete the competition. He is 11-24 against the P5 competition. His wins against P5 teams are not against what I could call great teams either.

	Wins	Losses
2016​		Michigan (10-3)
		Maryland (6-7)
2017​	Maryland (4-8)
	Auburn (10-4)
2018​	Minnesota (7-6)	Colorado (5-7)
	Illinois (4-8)	Michigan (10-3)
	Michigan St (7-6)	Purdoodoo (6-7)
		WiscyDicks (8-5)
		Northwestern (9-5)
		Ohio St (13-1)
		Cockeyes (9-4)
2019​	Illinois (6-7)	Colorado (5-7)
	Northwestern (3-9)	Ohio State (13-1)
	Maryland (3-9)	Minnesota (11-2)
		Indianus (8-5)
		Purdoodoo (4-8)
		WiscyDicks (10-4)
		Cockeyes (10-3)
2020​	Gaetz State (4-5)	Ohio State (7-1)
	Purdoodoo (2-4)	Northwestern (7-2)
	Buttgers (3-6)	Illinois (2-6)
		Cockeyes (6-2)
		Minnesota (3-4)
2021​		Illinois (1-3)
		Oklahoma (4-0)
		Michigan State. (4-0)
Overall P5 record	11​	24​
opponents overall W/L record	53 - 72	171 - 90

Not trying to argue honestly but what about the play calling success at Oregon? Just chalk it up to talent?

 

[Alcaus]

So short and sweet, and yet so beautifully-stated.

The fallacy behind the "if Frost can't get it here, no one will..." or "no on will ever come here" arguments is that we are talking about a coach who is facing 5 losing seasons out of his 6 as a HC. Any analytics person will tell you that 2017 looks more and more like a fluke. If you dig into the numbers deeper, you'll see that his UCF team in 2017 was highly penalized (discipline) and mediocre on special teams.

What I don't understand about the Frost fandom and undying loyalty to the him is what has he done in 4 years to endear himself to the fanbase so much? He makes very few public appearances...when he does, like at fan day, it's in a heavily-controlled environment. You don't see him in public. You definitely don't see him with his family in public. (His wife greets him on the field after a game 1 time in 4 years in a very weird pre-determined photo op.) He is very standoffish to the local media. Makes stupid comments in press conferences like "we guessed wrong" and massive PR gaffes like trying to get out of the OU game, which as it turns out, wasn't necessary because it turned out to be a positive for the program. And on top of everything else, we are poorly coached...5-15 in 1-score games. 0-3 with zero points scored in 3 OT games. So I ask again, what in the hell has Frost done, despite a 14-23 record, to earn the undying devotion from a certain segment of the fanbase?

Trying to steel-man the "What's Frost done for us lately?" argument is tough but I'll try:

1. Revamped the culture and attitude of the players from the Riley years
2. Strength and conditioning has our OL & DL looking the part in the B1G
3. Recruiting outside of this year hasn't dropped off and has been above-average for Nebraska

That's about all I can think of right now.

 

[DrinkItIn]

Not trying to argue honestly but what about the play calling success at Oregon? Just chalk it up to talent?

While a coach at Oregan he was WR(09-12) and then QB/OC(13-15). I do not believe he was solely responsible for calling the plays from 13-15 and I am sure Helfrich helped quite a bit. He was also surrounded by what I would call higher-level coaches that could help him. I do not believe Frost has surrounded himself with good enough coaches. He has had every opportunity to bring in some legit/proven assistant coaches to help him be a great HC and he has chosen to stand pat.

 

[Saudi_aurora]

Not trying to argue honestly but what about the play calling success at Oregon? Just chalk it up to talent?

 

[Red Finger]

Rebuilds don’t have to take 5 years. We’ve just been so shitty over our last several coaching changes that this is what we’ve been trained to believe.

Media driiiiilllllllled that into our heads when he first took the job. It worked. Here we are.

I was on board with it originally. I thought building it would mean we'd at least be winning a little bit in the process, getting to a few bowl games, NOT regressing. So long as we were seeing progress I was in...

 

[Pipe Line]

While a coach at Oregan he was WR(09-12) and then QB/OC(13-15). I do not believe he was solely responsible for calling the plays from 13-15 and I am sure Helfrich helped quite a bit. He was also surrounded by what I would call higher-level coaches that could help him. I do not believe Frost has surrounded himself with good enough coaches. He has had every opportunity to bring in some legit/proven assistant coaches to help him be a great HC and he has chosen to stand pat.

Understood. Very much agree with that last sentence at this point in time.

 

[Jim14510]

Don't know why the defensive staff would change at all. Every group is improved.

 

[Pipe Line]

View attachment 4989

Talent lol

 

[Pipe Line]

Media driiiiilllllllled that into our heads when he first took the job. It worked. Here we are.

I was on board with it originally. I thought building it would mean we'd at least be winning a little bit in the process, getting to a few bowl games, NOT regressing. So long as we were seeing progress I was in...

I thought it would take 5 years to start sniffing national respect again. I think in a way you could argue that's happening right now with the last 2 weeks. Atleast defensively.

 

[HuskerHomie]

The conversation was about Omaha recruits.

2019 - Henrich, Hickman N
2020 - Betts N, Watts Notre Dame
2021 - Teddy, Bretz, Rollins N, Johnson Cockeyes, Dickerson Oregon
2022 - Riley-Ducker Auburn, Woods Missouri (the one outlier), Jackson Not committed Arizona St/Miami, Helms Oklahoma

OK that's fair, I just did a quick look at the top NE recruits and where thry went, or were committed to for the last few yrs so some of those guys were not listed that u mentioned and I missed them..

 

[KidsSeeGhosts]

Defensive staff has been incredibly impressive. The 2017 defense is still the worst defense I've ever seen at Nebraska (don't care what you say about '07, 2017 was worse). This is a really good defense and probably the best we've had since we've been in the B1G.

Problem with this year is clearly just the OL. Special teams aren't great, but we wouldn't be talking about it if we didn't get schooled by 4 man rush.

Ultimately, the biggest weird thing to me about the Frost era is just how weirdly outsized single mistakes are. Take Adrian's fumble against Illinois. It's not just a fumble--it's a fumble returned for a touchdown that flips the game. That shit happens repeatedly. In both games against Tucker we've completely outplayed his teams and essentially a couple breaks have to go exactly right for his team to win, and he's threaded the needle both times.

 

[huskerj12]

Media driiiiilllllllled that into our heads when he first took the job. It worked. Here we are.

I was on board with it originally. I thought building it would mean we'd at least be winning a little bit in the process, getting to a few bowl games, NOT regressing. So long as we were seeing progress I was in...

Yeah I think it absolutely made sense to expect around 5 years to rebuild, as in get us back to full prominence. That's how I always took it. We'd be getting better each season and then around 2022 or so we'd be back in the hunt for Big Ten titles. There was absolutely no part of me that thought it could take 3-4-5 years just to make a bowl game. If anyone pretends that was all part of the plan they are lying.

 

[Alcaus]

Yeah I think it absolutely made sense to expect around 5 years to rebuild, as in get us back to full prominence. That's how I always took it. We'd be getting better each season and then around 2022 or so we'd be back in the hunt for Big Ten titles. There was absolutely no part of me that thought it could take 3-4-5 years just to make a bowl game. If anyone pretends that was all part of the plan they are lying.

This is from a Sipple article yesterday:

By the way, this week essentially marks the halfway point -- 3 1/2 seasons -- of Frost's original seven-year contract. Remember, many if not most Nebraska fans signed off on the notion of a seven-year building project, mindful of the colossal mess Frost inherited. He now stands 14-23 overall and 9-19 in Big Ten play. His current team is 2-3 (0-2 Big Ten). This isn't exactly what Frost expected at the 3 1/2-season mark.

Article

The emboldened caught my attention. Not sure I believed 7 years was needed to compete for the B1G West division...

 

[huskerj12]

So short and sweet, and yet so beautifully-stated.

The fallacy behind the "if Frost can't get it here, no one will..." or "no on will ever come here" arguments is that we are talking about a coach who is facing 5 losing seasons out of his 6 as a HC. Any analytics person will tell you that 2017 looks more and more like a fluke. If you dig into the numbers deeper, you'll see that his UCF team in 2017 was highly penalized (discipline) and mediocre on special teams.

What I don't understand about the Frost fandom and undying loyalty to the him is what has he done in 4 years to endear himself to the fanbase so much? He makes very few public appearances...when he does, like at fan day, it's in a heavily-controlled environment. You don't see him in public. You definitely don't see him with his family in public. (His wife greets him on the field after a game 1 time in 4 years in a very weird pre-determined photo op.) He is very standoffish to the local media. Makes stupid comments in press conferences like "we guessed wrong" and massive PR gaffes like trying to get out of the OU game, which as it turns out, wasn't necessary because it turned out to be a positive for the program. And on top of everything else, we are poorly coached...5-15 in 1-score games. 0-3 with zero points scored in 3 OT games. So I ask again, what in the hell has Frost done, despite a 14-23 record, to earn the undying devotion from a certain segment of the fanbase?

He's the last one to win a natty and be connected to TO in coaching. For me, brutally honest, that's all it is at this point. I suppose it's a name connected to the glory years that I missed.

Yeah it's that simple, really. It's turned into such a bizarre story/punchline it's almost like it was all set up by the football gods to embarrass Nebraska even more.

Frost the player was known as a gritty, tough, imperfect hometown kid who learned and fought his way through struggles to become an ultimate winner and leader. He took the mic after finishing his undefeated senior season and eloquently honored TO and called on the voters to crown NU as the champs, and they did. Storybook legend status.

Frost the coach rose through the ranks by leaving the fishbowl and spreading his wings on his own, step-by-step earning promotions until he got his own program at UCF and shocked the world with the most incredible two-year turnaround in college football history. He was seen as a hip young fun-loving players coach with a modern offensive philosophy that tore opponents to shreds. And people who saw him struggle in 1996 and then become a national champion in 1997 and then grow up to be the most exciting young coach in the USA 20 years later understandably felt proud!

I have zero gripes with anybody who felt this way in 2017, and I don't regret feeling that way myself. There is no doubt that the idea of Frost becoming our coach at that point and taking us back to respectability was THE coolest best-case-scenario narrative imaginable. And it's hard to just shake that! I still have a little bit of hope that it could still work out, but so far it just hasn't, AT ALL, and the current state of things is unsustainable. It's hard to understand how someone with that trajectory could end up falling flat on their face SO hard, SO many times, in such spectacular ways, the way Frost has for the past 3+ years. It's painful to watch, and it's tragic in its own way. But it doesn't mean we have to just keep letting him faceplant over and over in perpetuity.

 

[lee_carvallo_12]

None of the games have been fun to watch.

The games are pure agony to watch from start to finish. Edge of your chair waiting for an epic catastrophe.

 

[Alcaus]

The games are pure agony to watch from start to finish. Edge of your chair waiting for an epic catastrophe.

IKR? Masochism is beginning to enter the fan psyche.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

This is from a Sipple article yesterday:

By the way, this week essentially marks the halfway point -- 3 1/2 seasons -- of Frost's original seven-year contract. Remember, many if not most Nebraska fans signed off on the notion of a seven-year building project, mindful of the colossal mess Frost inherited. He now stands 14-23 overall and 9-19 in Big Ten play. His current team is 2-3 (0-2 Big Ten). This isn't exactly what Frost expected at the 3 1/2-season mark.

Article

The emboldened caught my attention. Not sure I believed 7 years was needed to compete for the B1G West division...

Hahahahahahaha.

Frost took over a somewhat talent depleted roster that ended up having quite a few NFL dudes on it and blamed them for everything until he created a self perpetuating cycle of failure that he isn't a good enough coach to pull them out from.

7 year rebuild. Lol my ass sip

 

[Baron Winnebago]

Frost walked into a bank. Robbed it. Shot all the hostages. And then started trying to negotiate for a helicopter to take him to Mexico