Stock Market/Investing/Day Trading/Speculative Trading Thread
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Stock Market/Investing/Day Trading/Speculative Trading Thread
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@Jim14510
problem of the day:
Client works all day at a burger stand on July 4th, 2013 for something called the "Marine Corps. League".
Client thought he was volunteering to work the stand to raise money for whatever the hell the Marine Corps League is/does.
A week after the day he is given 1 Bitcoin in compensation for the day he worked.
He was told it was valued at $100, he reported it as income on his 2013 return. (thank sweet baby jesus we got that proof)
Annnnnyhoo now he wants to donate the Bitcoin to.... you guessed it... the Marine Corps. League and before he does it wants to be sure he can deduct his "charitable" donation.
2025 starting HOT out of the gates
problem of the day:
Client works all day at a burger stand on July 4th, 2013 for something called the "Marine Corps. League".
Client thought he was volunteering to work the stand to raise money for whatever the hell the Marine Corps League is/does.
A week after the day he is given 1 Bitcoin in compensation for the day he worked.
He was told it was valued at $100, he reported it as income on his 2013 return. (thank sweet baby jesus we got that proof)
Annnnnyhoo now he wants to donate the Bitcoin to.... you guessed it... the Marine Corps. League and before he does it wants to be sure he can deduct his "charitable" donation.
2025 starting HOT out of the gates
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I’m a lawyer, but not a tax lawyer. Not sure why you wouldn’t be able to take full credit for the current FMV. I don’t think it’s any different than shares of stock for example.
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I agree. I’m a financial advisor and I don’t see it being any different than gifting appreciated stock like you said
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First off pretty cool that he's giving it back to them.
I don't envy you for this one. Personally I'd probably treat it like stock and take the FMV as I think that's where it will end up. I think you disagree and think it will go more the currency route. Which of course you'd have to convert to US $ and recognize the gain.
I can't imagine IRS is going to take the stance it is right now with crypto and then turn around and want to treat it like currency for donations.
Unless of course the court cases go through and it gets settled as currency.
At the end of the day nothing you aren't actually thinking already. Other than just explaining the train of thought to the client and letting them make the decision without any guarantees is all you can do.
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my thinking is Trump (his "team") is so pro-crypto that they will reverse the current IRS position and revert back to how it was treated 10 years ago like regular currency
AKA no "gain"
my client hasn't donated the Bitcoin yet so my advice was wait and see what the Trump admin does because we can always donate the coin and take the full FMV as the deduction or if Trump reverts this back to currency he can sell the coin when its high and take no gain then donate how much ever money he wants (because when he found out how much the coin is worth right now he was kind of like... "oh shit I thought it was a few grand not six figures" lol)
at worst we have the current position because they can't post-hoc change the tax code and fuck us
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I just can't see it getting equated with US currency even if it goes the currency route. Would still end up being treated like a foreign currency.
Bitcoin is the one wildcard but with no govt control over it I just can't see it making it through that way. More likely they create a new US crypto that's tied to the $.
Trump is "pro crypto" in the sense that saying crypto is good got him votes.
Him potentially wanting to keep some of it now that he knows it's 100k changes things. Also changes my initial reaction of "what a great guy". Doesn't hurt to wait under that scenario but my guess is it's just delaying the inevitable.
Unless of course they equate it to foreign currency rules but not retroactively. That seems a slim chance though.
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I was thinking more like Musk and the boyz getting in Trump's ear
and yes Foreign ex is what I mean by currency, AKA the Tokyo Drift
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But you have to pay tax on gains of foreign currency. That isn't going backwards. Not with the availability to foreign currency like we have now.
I think there's a remote chance they designate certain crypto as equivalent to US currency. Super remote though.
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I should just dm you but you dealt with the farmland with fertilizer allocation at all?
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The most common issue I have clients need help with is pre-paid inputs for the next year, farmer is deducts them for current year... BUT then the next year comes and farmer never ends up using pre-paid pre-deducted inputs. (typically due to lease termination or death)
What issue do you got going on?
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Fairly new. When you buy farmland you can allocate a certain amount to residual fertilizer in the soil now. Small percentage of the purchase but still a big number. There are places out there doing the testing and calculation. I don't mess with that part.
The issue is how far to go back. These companies will calc it back 20+ years if you have the records of what fertilizer went on. Easy answer is amend up to 3 years. Deduct in the year of purchase.
Potentially it's an accounting change. Go back however far company calculating will go. File a 3115 and amortize the cost over 3-5. Which in most cases is all caught up in current year.
My issue with the 3115 logic is amortizing it as a cash basis farmer doesn't really make sense. If I wasn't going backwards I wouldn't. It's inconsistent with what I would do year to year so piss poor logic to do it going backwards.
Have a farmer that's bought land nearly every single year so they would have millions going on that 3115. Certainly others that would be able to go back but a couple that would be really significant numbers.
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All this tax talk is making me frisky. I think I get the allure of accounting now.
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1) what type of ground?
2) nobody has maxed out the deductions on the inputs on the ground yet?
3) I know you said your client is a big baller but realistically I wouldn't go too far back because you quickly cross into tail wag the dog scenario where the effort and risk isn't worth the reward.
4) look at you Jimmy boy, big baller whale farm client som'bitch 🤑
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Row crop, pasture, doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter. Logic isn't any different than fencing or other improvements on the land. Allocate land, fencing, tiling, and residual fertilizer to the overall purchase and expense/depreciate accordingly.
This is where I'm at right now. Trying to get an idea if anyone else is rolling the 3115 dice. Rather wait until there's more case law around it. Bad part is each year that goes by a land purchase X years ago falls off. That's a 6 figure deduction every time. The company doing the calculation has been audited a few times already and passed. No audits/cases where someone has used the 3115 approach yet that I'm aware of.
Boa Safra Ag is the company. If you have anyone buy land the closer to time of purchase the better. There's others out there I'm sure. Just the one I've seen used the most often.
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