Nebraska vs. USC - Expectations

[Red Finger]

The talent for the USC region can make them recover much faster.

That’s the difference. USC has a massive built in recruiting advantage.

I do think Nebraska can recruit at a high level. It’ll just never come as easy at Nebraska vs places like USC, Georgia, Texas, Florida, etc etc. Those schools can drive to recruit and get what they need.

 

[BIG TONE SOPRANO]

I don't think the mistake was firing Pelini. The mistake was not throwing top dollar out there for a real coach.

Callahan was heads and tails the best hire we have made since 1997

 

[Jim14510]

Callahan was heads and tails the best hire we have made since 1997

That could be true. It's him or Pelini and both got fired appropriately. I was referring to after Pelini got fired though.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I also think the mistake was making him a lame duck for a year.

I frankly wish we would have still backed him and either let him blow up or kept winning 9/10.

The lame duck year is a killer and honestly my biggest concern with retaining Frost at like 6-7 wins. Does anyone have a reasonable expectation that's it's going to be better next year with some of the losses theyre going to have on D and Toure on O? And more importantly is 6-7 wins enough to change the narrative around the program that Frost is on the way out that needs to be changed if they're going to have a snowballs chance in hell with high level recruits?

 

[Adolph Coors]

Frost also only had two years of head coaching experience at a non-power 5. No one saw if he could coach a team comprising of all players he recruited. Nebraska, a blue blood, should not be hiring coaches that are still learning the basics of their craft.

ok, but if we didnt take him he was Florida or Tennessee bound.

 

[Chi7397]

Pelini wasn’t going to keep winning 9 games - the Big 10 was down when we joined, it’s improved since. I think his tenure at YSU reflects what his trajectory was, particularly as the talent eroded.

getting rid of him was 100% the right call. I can make a better case for Callahan than can be made for Pelini.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Pelini wasn’t going to keep winning 9 games - the Big 10 was down when we joined, it’s improved since. I think his tenure at YSU reflects what his trajectory was, particularly as the talent eroded.

getting rid of him was 100% the right call. I can make a better case for Callahan than can be made for Pelini.

Eh I can see the argument for Billy C, but I am not as sure on Bo.

I think if you had a unified goal in the athletic department it would have been interesting. Once you brought in a hatchet man he was done and recruiting started to slide. Even with that sliding in recruiting a lot of Frost best players his first year were Bo recruits originally.

The only coach we haven't had that I can't see the argument for keeping is HCMR. I can see Bo, Frank, Frost and Billy C.

 

[Lionsfan93]

Frost also only had two years of head coaching experience at a non-power 5. No one saw if he could coach a team comprising of all players he recruited. Nebraska, a blue blood, should not be hiring coaches that are still learning the basics of their craft.

That's just a dumbass take. Ohio St hired Jim Tressel away from the FCS level. Ryan Day had zero head coaching experience. Oklahoma hired Stoops with no head coaching experience, and did the same thing with Lincoln Riley.

It's about hiring the right person. Sometimes it's easier to see that someone is or isn't the right person based on their experience, but a lack of experience doesn't not necessarily mean they aren't the right person. At the time, the Frost hire seemed like the right move. It just hasn't worked out, unfortunately. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision at the time though.

 

[Adolph Coors]

Pelini wasn’t going to keep winning 9 games - the Big 10 was down when we joined, it’s improved since. I think his tenure at YSU reflects what his trajectory was, particularly as the talent eroded.

getting rid of him was 100% the right call. I can make a better case for Callahan than can be made for Pelini.

this. we also went from 8 conference games to 9 & added BYU to the schedule. Recruiting also was getting bad. I dont hate him for his time here at all, the next coach had a nice core left for him, but not much for depth. the. riley absolutely fucked this place up

 

[DrinkItIn]

Eh I can see the argument for Billy C, but I am not as sure on Bo.

I think if you had a unified goal in the athletic department it would have been interesting. Once you brought in a hatchet man he was done and recruiting started to slide. Even with that sliding in recruiting a lot of Frost best players his first year were Bo recruits originally.

The only coach we haven't had that I can't see the argument for keeping is HCMR. I can see Bo, Frank, Frost and Billy C.

At this point what is the argument for Frost? He has been the worst of all these coaches.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

At this point what is the argument for Frost? He has been the worst of all these coaches.

The source of a lot of his problems on offense has been OL play.

HCMR recruited the following OL

• Farniok (Avg B1G OL)
• Jaimes (Good B1G OL)
• Decker (Good, but rumor was he didn't like football and flaked out)
• Wilson (Well below avg OL)
• Sichtermann (Well below avg OL)

That IMO is damn near death sentence to walk into. That has resulted in Nebraska starting the youngest OL in program history this year. You can't do that in a league with this level of line play.

This is still a really young team at the end of the day. This programs best days should be ahead of it with this roster. When you are a school that needs to be a developmental school you can't be young and expect good things IMO.

The spot where they aren't young (defense) has shown to have a lot of progress.

Now that being said, there has been somethings that I wish I didn't see and why I can see a move coming...

1. I hate hearing "I don't know why we (fill in the blank)..."
2. I hate seeing bad game management... For example, the 3rd and 2 play call at mid field vs Illinois that resulted in the scoop and score. That should have been a run.
3. I really question personnel management.

I am not in or out on Frost. I think he needs to show improvement. What I am really looking for from him is execution of a plan to win games and managing games better. Basically being a better HC.

If we go into OU and I can see his plan and see him executing it I will be happy with him. OU is an extremely fast starting team so if we get punched right away and he shits his pants that wont be good. If we don't have a plan for OU's pass rush that wont be good. If we miss manage the middle 1/3rd that wont be good. etc....

Like I said I can see the argument for Frost given the youth on this team. Youth in football doesn't work when you need to be a developmental school. I am really looking at the things that matter regardless of the youth/talent of this team.

 

[Skerz4Life50]

At this point what is the argument for Frost? He has been the worst of all these coaches.

I’m not saying that I want to keep Frost, as the Illinois game really made me ready to move on after we saw the same mistakes as the previous 3 seasons. That was totally inexcusable.

However, Frost has definitely recruited well so far (outside of this year), and there is far more talent and depth on the team than what Riley left him with. How it is developed is a completely separate debate, but talent is far better. The defense has consistently gotten better and deeper under Chin

You could also argue that Frost has had 2 out of 3 incredibly unique and difficult years as any new coach. Year 1, his first game is cancelled, his starting QB gets hurt in the new game 1 against CU, and (maybe or mostly by fault of his own has no QB depth) must start a walk-on during parts of other games that year. Then on top of that, last year was COVID, and the entire year was a clusterfuck, both on and off the field, both things he could control and not control. Just a shitty situation nationwide.

Finally, you could also make the argument that if Frost got a great QB, everything could change in an instant based on the talent we have elsewhere. Look at Winston at FSU, Cam Newton at Auburn, Burrow at LSU, or even Milton at UCF. Getting the right QB, when you have talent elsewhere, can really propel the team forward. 2AM isn’t bad, but he has so many turnovers at such critical points in the game. If you strike gold with your next QB (I would think we would need a transfer QB to do this), no telling what could happen.

Again, I’m not saying I want to keep Frost. Play calling, penalties, turnovers, game management, and special teams all need to show some great improvement throughout the rest of the year and the team needs to play looser. I don’t have much confidence in any of that happening. But if it does, then I think there are reasons to look past the first 3 seasons.

 

[Chi7397]

Eh I can see the argument for Billy C, but I am not as sure on Bo.

I think if you had a unified goal in the athletic department it would have been interesting. Once you brought in a hatchet man he was done and recruiting started to slide. Even with that sliding in recruiting a lot of Frost best players his first year were Bo recruits originally.

The only coach we haven't had that I can't see the argument for keeping is HCMR. I can see Bo, Frank, Frost and Billy C.

Recruiting was sliding before it became clear that Bo was going to get the axe - that was ultimately going to bring him down even if he were a great coach, which I thought he had flashes of in 09/10 against the spread but not so much thereafter. His volatility also lost us games Nebraska should have won - the man isn’t intense, he’s unstable.

There’s nothing in Bo’s post-NU tenure to suggest the wrong decision was made.

 

[Lionsfan93]

The source of a lot of his problems on offense has been OL play.

HCMR recruited the following OL

• Farniok (Avg B1G OL)
• Jaimes (Good B1G OL)
• Decker (Good, but rumor was he didn't like football and flaked out)
• Wilson (Well below avg OL)
• Sichtermann (Well below avg OL)

That IMO is damn near death sentence to walk into. That has resulted in Nebraska starting the youngest OL in program history this year. You can't do that in a league with this level of line play.

This is still a really young team at the end of the day. This programs best days should be ahead of it with this roster. When you are a school that needs to be a developmental school you can't be young and expect good things IMO.

The spot where they aren't young (defense) has shown to have a lot of progress.

Now that being said, there has been somethings that I wish I didn't see and why I can see a move coming...

1. I hate hearing "I don't know why we (fill in the blank)..."
2. I hate seeing bad game management... For example, the 3rd and 2 play call at mid field vs Illinois that resulted in the scoop and score. That should have been a run.
3. I really question personnel management.

I am not in or out on Frost. I think he needs to show improvement. What I am really looking for from him is execution of a plan to win games and managing games better. Basically being a better HC.

If we go into OU and I can see his plan and see him executing it I will be happy with him. OU is an extremely fast starting team so if we get punched right away and he shits his pants that wont be good. If we don't have a plan for OU's pass rush that wont be good. If we miss manage the middle 1/3rd that wont be good. etc....

Like I said I can see the argument for Frost given the youth on this team. Youth in football doesn't work when you need to be a developmental school. I am really looking at the things that matter regardless of the youth/talent of this team.

I don't accept the argument of youth. Maybe in the previous years, but not in year 4. Any spots being filled with youth, like the OL, are simply a product of a lack of recruiting talent, developing talent and retaining talent. It's all on Frost now. No more excuses.

 

[Cash68847]

I think his demeanor hurt him more with the administration than with the fan base. That and having one foot out the door the entire time he was here

Either you loved him or hated him. I knew plenty of people at the end who didn’t like the way he acted. In the end it hurt him more with the administration because if he acted like Riley he still might have his job.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

I don't accept the argument of youth. Maybe in the previous years, but not in year 4. Any spots being filled with youth, like the OL, are simply a product of a lack of recruiting talent, developing talent and retaining talent. It's all on Frost now. No more excuses.

Ok.. You can not accept it.. It still doesn't change the fact that this is the youngest OL in the 130 years of this program. So you come off as really ignorant.

How can it be a lack of recruiting for OL? 2019 was his first Full class. That class would be 3rd year players. That room was a 100% rebuild thanks to HCMR basically not recruiting anybody for 3 years. That is not enough time to be a developmental school to have a good OL. That is just a fact.

 

[David Webb]

That's just a dumbass take. Ohio St hired Jim Tressel away from the FCS level. Ryan Day had zero head coaching experience. Oklahoma hired Stoops with no head coaching experience, and did the same thing with Lincoln Riley.

It's about hiring the right person. Sometimes it's easier to see that someone is or isn't the right person based on their experience, but a lack of experience doesn't not necessarily mean they aren't the right person. At the time, the Frost hire seemed like the right move. It just hasn't worked out, unfortunately. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision at the time though.

Great examples. Tressel had over a decade of head coaching experience to prove he could develop talent and win. He also took over Ohio St., a team that wasn’t void of talent.

Day took over a top 3 team loaded with talent. Stoops took over a team loaded with talent recruited by John Blake. Blake just couldn’t coach. Riley took over a team that went 11-2 the previous two years and had a lot of talent.

None of them had to take over teams with significant issues or lack of talent.

Frost took over a team with talent issues and was dysfunctional. His lack of experience has been a detriment. If he hadn’t played at Nebraska, only a handful of people on here would have brought up his name to replace Riley and he most likely would have been fired already. He gets defended on here because he is homegrown and won a title. It sure and the hell can’t be for his actual performance.

 

[huskerj12]

The Bo era was a lot of contradictory things: It was so much fun at first, I was a student at the time and it was genuinely exciting and felt like we were starting to fight and scrap our way back to the upper ranks. I'll never forget the adrenaline in the crowd at so many of those games, especially when the 09 defense was firing on all cylinders. But the shine wore off after 2010 and we stayed frustratingly consistent and consistently frustrating for the rest of his time here. It became impossible to be fully onboard because Bo himself wasn't fully onboard. He was misunderstood in some ways but perfectly understood in ways that even HE didn't understand about himself. The perfect example is that he's this ultra-loyal down to earth guy who is beloved by his players, but he also taught them to hate their own fans and claims to black out and have no memory of his countless moments of rage. That's just bonkers and mentally unstable. By the end of his time here he actively hated Nebraska and clearly wanted out, and the wheels most likely would've fallen off after a couple more years if he had stayed.

All of that added up to a completely unsustainable situation, BUT it was also always fascinating because he was such a wild and mystifying character. Our awfulness has just become boring since Bo left and by now I look back more fondly at his time here because it was, incredibly, more fun than it has been since he was fired. Again, I know the fun was not very fun by 2013 and 2014, and it was definitely about to become a sinking ship, so I do not think he should still be our coach in 2021 or anything. But the stretch of good times and the strange behind-the-scenes intrigue under Bo were WAY more fun as a fan than what we've gone through ever since.

I think that's one reason why people have jumped onto the wild rumors about Frost, they just want drama and a "big bad story" to gossip about and fill the void of a boringly bad program.

 

[Skerz4Life50]

Great examples. Tressel had over a decade of head coaching experience to prove he could develop talent and win. He also took over Ohio St., a team that wasn’t void of talent.

Day took over a top 3 team loaded with talent. Stoops took over a team loaded with talent recruited by John Blake. Blake just couldn’t coach. Riley took over a team that went 11-2 the previous two years and had a lot of talent.

None of them had to take over teams with significant issues or lack of talent.

Frost took over a team with talent issues and was dysfunctional. His lack of experience has been a detriment. If he hadn’t played at Nebraska, only a handful of people on here would have brought up his name to replace Riley and he most likely would have been fired already. He gets defended on here because he is homegrown and won a title. It sure and the hell can’t be for his actual performance.

I disagree if he hadn't played for Nebraska, only a handful of people would have brought up his name. He was literally one of the hottest coaches on the market that year. The top names that made a move that year were Jimbo Fisher (we weren't ever going to pay what TAMU paid for him), Dan Mullen (he was a backup option for Florida after Frost, but would have been a good option and many supported it), Chip Kelly (really only considered UCLAbia), and Kevin Sumlin (probably the worst hire of all from that year).

Ranking the 2017-18 college football coaching hires | Sporting News

www.sportingnews.com

Obviously there would have been other options out there to hire, but Frost was nationally regarded as basically the best option available alongside Mullen. There were 21 head coaching hires in 2017-18, and really only 7 have been semi-plus successful. Jimbo Fisher, Dan Mullen, Chip Kelly, Herm Edwards, Mario Cristobal, Josh Heupal, and Billy Napier. Almost all the rest outside of Frost have already been fired. And out of those 7, the only other one our fans would have maybe been happy with (that was realistic) was Mullen.

 

[Alcaus]

Eh I can see the argument for Billy C, but I am not as sure on Bo.

I think if you had a unified goal in the athletic department it would have been interesting. Once you brought in a hatchet man he was done and recruiting started to slide. Even with that sliding in recruiting a lot of Frost best players his first year were Bo recruits originally.

The only coach we haven't had that I can't see the argument for keeping is HCMR. I can see Bo, Frank, Frost and Billy C.

Honestly, I can see both sides.

Your scenario requires a unified administration which would’ve been nice to see at the time. Not sure how much fault lies with Bo on that front.