Nebraska vs. USC - Expectations

[Alcaus]

Pelini, imo, was fired because he couldn't get over the hump. That fateful decision has led to one of the most underwhelming era's of Nebraska football I've ever experienced; the furthest back I can recall watching games had Crouch manning QB.

Looking at the Coaching Tier thread got me thinking... Have Nebraska's expectations matched those of other blue blood programs like USC for instance?

After multiple losing seasons since Pelini was fired, winning 8-9 games a year and the occasional 10 doesn't sound bad at all. However, you had to take what came with it. 1 major blowout a year, a game that shouldn't have been close going to the wire, one (or multiple) of NW, Cockeye, Wisc, Minny beating us in the West.

Pelini Stats:
7 Seasons
66-27 (Left out his interim win) (.710 which is in Shaw, Patterson, Kelly territory AKA pretty fuckin good)
4 Division Titles
0 Conference Titles
0 NY6 Games

Helton Stats:
6 Seasons
45-24 (Left out his interim win) (.652 is in Harbaugh, Mullen territory. I wouldn't call it bad.)
2 Division Titles
1 Conference Title
1-1 NY6 Games (Rose Bowl win)

One might look at Helton's body of work and think "This isn't good enough at USC" and they would probably be right. Was Nebraska wrong to have the same thought process back in 2014? Pelini was averaging more than .5 a W a year than Helton, played in tougher conference (BIG Legends/West vs. Pac-12 South), nowhere near the same talent and yet I felt like the results on the field justified his firing (ignoring the political bullshit and off-field drama).

Is USC making a similar mistake as we did back in '14 or did Helton suck too much to lead USC? Was the decision to fire Pelini the correct decision "philosophically" and we just botched the execution? I think hiring and firing coaches until you find a championship-caliber coach is the way to go but maybe we should be thankful we get to go to bowls and win 8-9 games a year after all.

 

[Jim14510]

I don't think the mistake was firing Pelini. The mistake was not throwing top dollar out there for a real coach.

 

[DrinkItIn]

I guess I do not think USC is making a mistake. I do not think they ever really wanted Helton there. They now want a bigger more proven name. I feel like they were backed into a corner with Helton b/c he was just winning enough since named interim.

In the end, they want to win and compete for championships. Helton wasn't going to take them there consistently enough IMO.

I feel the same about Bo. He was never going to win at the level I think NU can and should. NU has to try and hire the absolute best coach available. Frost was definitely the trendy up and comer, but when he brought his entire UCF staff, that was a huge concern and now it's being proven as such.

 

[David Webb]

I guess I do not think USC is making a mistake. I do not think they ever really wanted Helton there. They now want a bigger more proven name. I feel like they were backed into a corner with Helton b/c he was just winning enough since named interim.

In the end, they want to win and compete for championships. Helton wasn't going to take them there consistently enough IMO.

I feel the same about Bo. He was never going to win at the level I think NU can and should. NU has to try and hire the absolute best coach available. Frost was definitely the trendy up and comer, but when he brought his entire UCF staff, that was a huge concern and now it's being proven as such.

Frost also only had two years of head coaching experience at a non-power 5. No one saw if he could coach a team comprising of all players he recruited. Nebraska, a blue blood, should not be hiring coaches that are still learning the basics of their craft.

 

[turek420845]

The talent for the USC region can make them recover much faster.

 

[DuckSker]

I don't think the mistake was firing Pelini. The mistake was not throwing top dollar out there for a real coach.

How Mike Riley was allowed to be hired was beyond me

 

[wildcat_husker]

I think people romanticize Pelini’s years here/win total.

It’s easy to forget how awful the B1G was back then. It was regarded as the worst of the P5 conferences.

Not to say we’ve had better coaches since but just an observation.

 

[YankeesJunkie]

Frost also only had two years of head coaching experience at a non-power 5. No one saw if he could coach a team comprising of all players he recruited. Nebraska, a blue blood, should not be hiring coaches that are still learning the basics of their craft.

If Nebraska passed on Frost at the time there would have been a massive revolt. Not to mention he would have probably gone to UF and I think a big allure of Frost is this is his ultimate job, if he was successful you dont have to worry about having a new HC for 20 plus years.

 

[Cash68847]

Frost also only had two years of head coaching experience at a non-power 5. No one saw if he could coach a team comprising of all players he recruited. Nebraska, a blue blood, should not be hiring coaches that are still learning the basics of their craft.

It’s a crap shoot. It works out sometimes. Guys like Dabo, Stoops, Day, and Riley never had head coaching experience and had to learn on the run and they’ve worked out. Urb and Saban are the only for sure hires in college football.

 

[Alcaus]

I guess I do not think USC is making a mistake. I do not think they ever really wanted Helton there. They now want a bigger more proven name. I feel like they were backed into a corner with Helton b/c he was just winning enough since named interim.

In the end, they want to win and compete for championships. Helton wasn't going to take them there consistently enough IMO.

I feel the same about Bo. He was never going to win at the level I think NU can and should. NU has to try and hire the absolute best coach available. Frost was definitely the trendy up and comer, but when he brought his entire UCF staff, that was a huge concern and now it's being proven as such.

That’s a good point. Helton did enough to keep his job and I think the market was pretty shit that year.

I just use Helton bc it’s a blue blood program that’s experienced middling success and fired their guy. Felt like there might be some parallels between him and the Pelini situation.

 

[Alcaus]

I think people romanticize Pelini’s years here/win total.

It’s easy to forget how awful the B1G was back then. It was regarded as the worst of the P5 conferences.

Not to say we’ve had better coaches since but just an observation.

I’m kind of in the same boat. I’ve heard pundits saying how the Pelini years weren’t so bad. Obviously now they don’t look terrible but at the time I remember how frustrated this fanbase seemed year after year towards the end.

 

[Alcaus]

So were the motivations to fire Pelini at the time valid? Do you think the fanbase would take the same results during the Pelini years and ride it for 20?

Take Frost out of the equation bc I’m not really commenting on him specifically.

My opinion is that the same reasons we fired Bo for were correct and that if the program isn’t striving to be Alabama then what’s the point?

 

[Fargo Husker]

It’s easy to forget how awful the B1G was back then. It was regarded as the worst of the P5 conferences.

This is a great point that I think often gets overlooked. If you look at the Big 12 North/B1G Legends divisions vs the B1G West (and conference as a whole), the overall talent level is much higher across the board now. I genuinely believe that had Pelini been retained his level of success would’ve began to slip.

Going back to the OP, I agree with the first sentence partially. Pelini was fired because he couldn’t get over the hump AND because he was a colossal asshole. On the whole I think Husker fans would’ve continued to be okay with Pelini if he had ANY good will remaining with the administration or fan base but he had gotten to a point where nearly all bridges had been burned. In short, if you combine Pelini’s success level with any “normal” coach’s personality there’s a decent chance he may still be the coach today, IMO.

 

[Cash68847]

I’m kind of in the same boat. I’ve heard pundits saying how the Pelini years weren’t so bad. Obviously now they don’t look terrible but at the time I remember how frustrated this fanbase seemed year after year towards the end.

I think the fanbase was split down the middle on Pelini. A fair amount were fine with the job he was doing. I think it came down to his demeanor more for the fans that didn’t like him.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I think the fanbase was split down the middle on Pelini. A fair amount were fine with the job he was doing. I think it came down to his demeanor more for the fans that didn’t like him.

I think his demeanor hurt him more with the administration than with the fan base. That and having one foot out the door the entire time he was here

 

[Baron Winnebago]

Helton and Pelini are actually great parallels. Both started far better than people expected them to, but about half way through their tenure it was pretty clear it wasn't meant to last forever. Both seemed to be on borrowed time each season and it really felt like groundhog day each season until it mercifully ended

 

[Alcaus]

Helton and Pelini are actually great parallels. Both started far better than people expected them to, but about half way through their tenure it was pretty clear it wasn't meant to last forever. Both seemed to be on borrowed time each season and it really felt like groundhog day each season until it mercifully ended

Well said

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Pelini could at least sleep walk his way to 9 wins with shitty recruiting, and a staff full of assistants nobody in power 5 really wanted . Frost has literally has to fight for that 4th or 5th win each season.


Carl being Carl was as detrimental to Bo's demise as anything imo

 

[HerbRedman]

So were the motivations to fire Pelini at the time valid? Do you think the fanbase would take the same results during the Pelini years and ride it for 20?

Take Frost out of the equation bc I’m not really commenting on him specifically.

My opinion is that the same reasons we fired Bo for were correct and that if the program isn’t striving to be Alabama then what’s the point?

I probably wouldn't have had the guts to fire Bo at that point. Though I think it was obvious Bo was not capable of bringing NU to the next level. And I actually think he would have struggled to maintain NU at 9 or even 8 wins as the B1G has improved.

I think Pelini would have petered out at 5-7 at Nebraska as the B1G programs have all gotten better, and his was getting worse.

Remember, BTN was new in 2011. By now, the B1G programs have had years of $55m payouts each yr. Those programs have all caught up to whatever $$ advantage NU had in the early B1G yrs. And that would have caught up to Pelini. As you can see w his YSU and LSU stints, the guy was clearly losing his edge as a coach.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

I don't think the mistake was firing Pelini. The mistake was not throwing top dollar out there for a real coach.

I also think the mistake was making him a lame duck for a year.

I frankly wish we would have still backed him and either let him blow up or kept winning 9/10.