Finally got to rewatch the game

[Alcaus]

I'm glad to see you point out the timeout called on 4th and 7. I'm very much in on Rhule, but his game/clock management miscues have drove me nuts since he's been here. When that timeout was called I yelled "what the fuck are you doing?" at the tv. We had them on their heels, they had no answer besides hoping Soresby could get lose and scramble. Instead we gave them a chance to draw something up and they did. After they got the first down I yelled "fuck you Rhule" at the tv. To say I was furious at the timeout call and when they converted is an understatement.

I don’t know… they were having trouble containing Sorsby and I believe Cincy was in hurry up on that 4th down play. Guys were just trying to get aligned.

Thought the timeout was warranted considering what had happened all game despite the conversion.

 

[RedTillDead]

Texas Tech has a lot more money than I thought. To your point, the "they were getting paid above their market value" really bothered me. If they are getting offered something, that's their market value. I get we don't have the money to compete with Ohio State, Texas Tech, Ole Miss, Texas, etc. But I feel this is the first year we didn't go after what I thought were glaring needs for us at RB and DL. Would also say TE. But you can't predict a Markway injury either so I'm trying not to be too hard there.

If we don’t have the money to compete as a top 10 team then we should definitely adjust our program expectations. I’ve been thinking about this extensively since the game, but if we don’t have the $ to compete with the best then we are just spinning our wheels.

My expectations are to be right there in the CFP year in year out, more times than not we make the CFP. But this goes back to your $$$ comment, might as well get a cheaper head coach and be ok with winning 7-8 games a year and be done with it.

 

[cwessel76]

Texas Tech has a lot more money than I thought. To your point, the "they were getting paid above their market value" really bothered me. If they are getting offered something, that's their market value. I get we don't have the money to compete with Ohio State, Texas Tech, Ole Miss, Texas, etc. But I feel this is the first year we didn't go after what I thought were glaring needs for us at RB and DL. Would also say TE. But you can't predict a Markway injury either so I'm trying not to be too hard there.

Agree but I think one would absolutely be able to predict a Markway injury

 

[RedTillDead]

So much... we are top 40-ish

Yeah we really need to be more like top 15 or better, top 40 ain’t going to cut it and if that’s the truthful case wake me up when we are at a spot NIL wise that we can compete.

 

[Irv]

I will say we are in a very good spot since we weren't in the red. We could "absorb" the 20 million new expense as opposed to other places like Cockeye State.

I want to see how things even out after this year though, there was a mad rush to pay guys before they got on campus before the new legislation came in place. We may actually be ok after that. But we aren't paying more than Ohio State and others before you add in Texas Tech's of the world.

I have always though that part of the issue is that the SEC schools already had a culture of boosters paying up for players before NIL, so they were in perfect position to transition into the new era.

I don’t think there is inherently more money in places like Mississippi or in even most of the non-oil schools. We just don’t have the same culture of boosters ponying up large sums of money to get particular players.

It probably takes time to build that, if ever.

 

[ShortSideOption]

Agree but I think one would absolutely be able to predict a Markway injury

lol ok fair

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Well we’re boned then. We could jump up and have a big year every once in a while however no chance to build to consistently compete vs our “peers” with that type of money. They are going to have to pull the grandfathered low ticket donations and throw that into NIL or back door pay but that probably wouldn’t be enough.

This is so interesting bc we’ve been sold publically how we’re debt free and in such great shape to be a top player in NIL and rev share.

we are unquestionably in a great position regarding the revenue share, teams outside the P2 conferences are already starting to show some cracks. what remains to be seen now that the revenue share is in place is how much teams can get away with on the NIL side under the new rules. This season is kind of an anomaly in that schools were able to pay huge NIL deals under the old rules in the spring and then start paying players directly this fall

I watched games all day yesterday and a thought occurred to me. We are unquestionably a better roster from top to bottom than we were in '21, '22 and '23, which is to be expected when we upgrade the coaching staff. However I think a lot of schools in the P4 conferences can say the same thing.

Now that most schools have hired GMs and are getting adapted to NIL and the portal I think you can make a case that there's never been more talent from top to bottom in those conferences. There are a few exceptions like Bama (who had nowhere to go but down) but overall I think a lot of mid-level and even bottom-dwelling teams in the P4 have increased their talent levels at the expense of G5 and FCS teams. So while we've improved the roster quite a bit, when compared to the rest of the Big 10 we're only slightly better relative to them

 

[ShortSideOption]

If we don’t have the money to compete as a top 10 team then we should definitely adjust our program expectations. I’ve been thinking about this extensively since the game, but if we don’t have the $ to compete with the best then we are just spinning our wheels.

My expectations are to be right there in the CFP year in year out, more times than not we make the CFP. But this goes back to your $$$ comment, might as well get a cheaper head coach and be ok with winning 7-8 games a year and be done with it.

Yeah we really need to be more like top 15 or better, top 40 ain’t going to cut it and if that’s the truthful case wake me up when we are at a spot NIL wise that we can compete.

I would tell you we are at a spot where we can make the CFP. Indiana doesn't have better NIL than us, they made it. Yes you have to have things fall right for you but it can happen.

The problem is cheaper head coach doesn't get us any more NIL or rev sharing, it also could net us 5-6 wins per year.

I think we are fine NIL-wise, if we get focus on the right spots such as DL/RB instead of OG. Think about an OT we had to pay 5% of our NIL that isn't even starting. When you buy that type of guy he has to produce.

 

[Jim14510]

not saying based off their talent that they’re the fourth or fifth hardest game I’m saying based off the circumstances of it being a week 1 game, ample time to prepare, and the defensive scheme. We can rehash this conversation later on in the year and see how they are doing. If they’re bad ill eat my crow.

Thats fair. I don't think they're bad either. I just think we'll face mostly better teams in the B1G. Northwestern being at least one exception.

 

[Flabio]

I have always though that part of the issue is that the SEC schools already had a culture of boosters paying up for players before NIL, so they were in perfect position to transition into the new era.

I don’t think there is inherently more money in places like Mississippi or in even most of the non-oil schools. We just don’t have the same culture of boosters ponying up large sums of money to get particular players.

It probably takes time to build that, if ever.

It comes down to how insane are you about spending money on college kids to be an NFL farm league team. The south will always do whatever it takes no matter how crazy it is.

 

[cwessel76]

It comes down to how insane are you about spending money on college kids to be an NFL farm league team. The south will always do whatever it takes no matter how crazy it is.

…and most of SEC county lives in poverty outside of their college towns.

Example: Mississippi

 

[Flabio]

…and most of SEC county lives in poverty outside of their college towns.

Example: Mississippi

Yes it makes no sense. It’s always been this way. In the B1G OSU, Oregon, PSU and maybe USC can compete at these levels more consistently. Illinois has had some really good rosters so maybe their NIL is better too. Who knows. Maybe they are betting on their large rFr and So classes planning out.

 

[ShortSideOption]

I don’t know… they were having trouble containing Sorsby and I believe Cincy was in hurry up on that 4th down play. Guys were just trying to get aligned.

Thought the timeout was warranted considering what had happened all game despite the conversion.

Ok I'd agree that we were struggling to get aligned. My problem is get your playcall in while Cincy is scrambling too and then see where you are. If you watch after the 3rd and 7 incompletion, Butler was more concerned about asking if he could take a timeout than getting the play call in. Get the play call in first. With us not being aligned you have to take the TO, but there are a few things that could have been done to prevent it. And then they converted anyway.

 

[Flabio]

Ok I'd agree that we were struggling to get aligned. My problem is get your playcall in while Cincy is scrambling too and then see where you are. If you watch after the 3rd and 7 incompletion, Butler was more concerned about asking if he could take a timeout than getting the play call in. Get the play call in first. With us not being aligned you have to take the TO, but there are a few things that could have been done to prevent it. And then they converted anyway.

What was getting really old was all their key pass plays were to their same WR.

 

[HashtagGBR]

I think we need to go after Saudi Oil money. Buy every player before someone else does it down the road

 

[ShortSideOption]

I think we need to go after Saudi Oil money. Buy every player before someone else does it down the road

Prime went and met with them if that does anything for you?

 

[HashtagGBR]

Prime went and met with them if that does anything for you?

Let’s do it, our rich people are wannabe’s

 

[V-Doub]

I went over my season prediction in the thread below... and it turns out a lot of the questions I had heading into the season from that thread might be even bigger than I initially realized.

Post in thread 'Just went to CouncilTucky to place my season win total bet'

Friday at 9:55 AM

• ShortSideOption

• 
• 

I'm a glass is half full guy, so I have to be honest that in the transfer portal era, I think a lot of teams are starting off slow just trying to figure out what they are. So we are 1-0 and we shouldn't get too nitpicky. I also believe that Cincy is going to be a pretty good team, their QB and NG gave us fits all night.

-I don't understand the people that are mad that we didn't show a downfield passing game. Cincy ran Cockeye State's 3 high safety look, so it was either checkdowns or running the ball.

-The real concern is that our OL wasn't able to open lanes for EJ to run the ball against a favorable box. Typically you audible to a run if there are 2 safeties back there, Cincy had 3 with corners over our WRs. We couldn't run very effectively. We overcame it against Cincy, will we be able to against Michigan?

-In the thread I linked, I talked about how absolutely thin our RB room is. I had healthy debates with people on why we switched Mozee to RB, and it wasn't because he's just so good he has to be there. It's because we truly don't have anyone besides EJ back there. While I don't think Ives is the answer, maybe he can give us some options once he returns 100% from his hamstring injury. But things just didn't look great, and Nelson while serviceable, is just too young and not explosive. I also made reference that EJ is a nice piece for our room, he's a good back, but he's not a gamebreaker and isn't changing games. He can do everything Holgo wants offensively with catching balls out of the backfield, but what we need is a back that makes you pay if our WRs aren't able to stretch the field vertically and a team is playing coverage like Cincy did.

- I am a fan of our TE room, I like Lindenmeyer, and Haarberg/Nelson give us an added dimension. But one of the reasons we couldn't run the ball effectively IMO was we don't have that second guy like Boerkircher would have been to get in some heavy sets. HH and Nelson just can't move the pile like another Boerkircher/Markway could have, and that's why you saw Lenhardt get a snap or two. Don't be surprised if you see some shuffling there to find another big body to help.

-OL was the disappointment for me, as I thought if Cincy did what they did we would be able to drive their DL off the ball and just get 4-5 yards at ease. I do understand their NG was a dude, but that's one guy. It was also disheartening to hear during the Alabama game that the Crimson Tide "had real struggles at tackle last year, so they made some upgrades in the portal getting rid of a guy to Nebraska and bringing in more talent" considering how much we paid that guy. Further, we aren't even playing him. Evans-Jenkins had his hands full with their NG, I liked what our OGs did, but tackle I think we are in trouble until we find our 2 dudes.

-DL was disappointing to me, but I kind of knew what was going to happen. We are super small compared to last year, so Butler is having to create movement to create pressure. Last year, Ty and Nash could just eat up 3 or 4 blockers just them two, and it made it so our LBs could play free and filling the hole was super easy. Now we have guys that can't hold up the line and to get penetration we have to get them moving, so when they get pushed off their line it creates massive holes that our LBs/DBs have to try and fill. You saw some real trouble tackling because of this. Against teams like Michigan coming up, this is going to be really tough to deal with.

-Our secondary shut these guys down, that was great to see. I'm hoping guys like Van Poppel and Jeudy can play a bit more against some B1G opponents to make the reads more easy for our guys behind our front DL.

-On another note, the timeout when we had Cincy on 4th and 7 was completely ridiculous. We had them scrambling for a play, our crowd was into it, the announcer even came with "this is going to be the loudest it's been all night" while Cincy was out of ways to stop the clock, and for some reason Rhule/Butler gift them the chance to think about things and get in a different formation than what they came out in to convert the 4th down.

The next two weeks are going to give us a chance to feel much better about ourselves luckily. I'm sure our RB room will look much better against Akron and Houston Christian, our OL will move people much better, we will get behind their DBs. And our defense will make some of the plays we struggled with, and morale will be high heading into September 20th. But Michigans OL and rushing attack with a mobile QB has me VERY worried after what I saw this past weekend.

I feel like I should be ok with how the game played out due to the fact that what I thought were issues are really our only issues, but I think the fact that they looked as bad as they did (RB room and DL inexperience/size) coupled with our OL not being able to be dominant as I thought have me very worried about my over 7.5 bet. With that said, let's go glass is half full again, and the goal of week 1 is to come out with a 'W'. We found out maybe what some of our weaknesses are and what we need to get better at, so it gives us a couple weeks to get those things right heading into B1G play.

We definitely watched the same game. You pretty much hit on every point I’ve made over the last few days. Last paragraph is what I don’t know about. Can we at least address some of these issues over the next couple games?

Maybe, I think our o-line can play better and have the ability to improve. That will automatically make our RBs look better. We’re not gonna magically find a 5 tool RB on the roster, we have who we have, but they (especially EJ) can still be pretty damn good if they get better blocking. I think the offense in general has a lot of potential to get much better.

Defensive line is another story. We’re a little undersized and we’re not gonna get bigger all of sudden. Also didn’t see a natural or great pass rusher emerge either. But like everyone has said, only the 1st game and I think we’ll see a couple few guys emerge as really good pass rushers. Matchup was tough with a QB that can scramble/run like Sorsby. Nevertheless, JoBu will have earn that paycheck and find some creative ways to stop the run and get more pressure. My hope… the secondary is good enough that we can bring help in the run game and they (secondary) can still hold up against the PA pass. (and/or passing on run downs as well) Then we’re probably gonna have to do some creative stuff to get to the QB. Blitzes, run blitzes, stunts etc…

If we can be one of the teams that are able to get better over the next 2-3 games we can still have a really good season. A lot of teams are exactly what you see after 2-3 games, we can’t be one of those teams.

 

[Alcaus]

Ok I'd agree that we were struggling to get aligned. My problem is get your playcall in while Cincy is scrambling too and then see where you are. If you watch after the 3rd and 7 incompletion, Butler was more concerned about asking if he could take a timeout than getting the play call in. Get the play call in first. With us not being aligned you have to take the TO, but there are a few things that could have been done to prevent it. And then they converted anyway.

I don’t disagree that Butler could’ve operated better. I’m just saying in his first game as DC I don’t necessarily consider it an indictment on game management moving forward but certainly something to watch.

 

[ShortSideOption]

I don’t disagree that Butler could’ve operated better. I’m just saying in his first game as DC I don’t necessarily consider it an indictment on game management moving forward but certainly something to watch.

Don't you dare try to get rational with me.