Mickey Joseph-Brent Davis

[Pipe Line]

Wanted to make a designated thread for this, given the possibility, and for my own learning.


Obviously Mickey Joseph known for recruiting and developing receives, while Brent Davis known for being part of Army' option offense. It's been said numerous times, that Davis is looking for an opportunity to "expand" and make his name known for more than just that kind of offense. But, if hired, sounds like the way Frost is wanting this to develop is a spread option attack with air raid passing concepts. So, is that as literal as it sounds? Or, are those just buzz words?


Don't mean to fire anyone up but just explaining how I interpret it to see what the differences are. TO's offense obviously used the run game to open up the passing game with mainly the TEs and receivers second. Would this Frost-MJ-Davis offense look similar, but from the gun, and use the option offense to open up receives primarily instead of TEs? Say 60/40 receiver-TE ratio? Would it be too far fetched to say it would be a modern version of the 97 offense with more passing to receivers?


Just trying to wrap my head around it as that seems to be the smoke right now.

 

[Tsakoi]

I don't believe we have a QB on the roster or committed to run the offense that you are describing. There is no way Smothers' arm could hold up his end of the bargain. And if we run him lots of times with the option plays he will eventually find himself in the hospital playing every week against Big 10 defenses.

I like the option and I think we should run in occasionally. I think having a mobile QB is a huge benefit in the college game but having our offense revolve around the QB position being relied upon to be highly productive is how we got to where we are today.

 

[Pipe Line]

I don't believe we have a QB on the roster or committed to run the offense that you are describing. There is no way Smothers' arm could hold up his end of the bargain. And if we run him lots of times with the option plays he will eventually find himself in the hospital playing every week against Big 10 defenses.

I like the option and I think we should run in occasionally. I think having a mobile QB is a huge benefit in the college game but having our offense revolve around the QB position being relied upon to be highly productive is how we got to where we are today.

No disagreement. Also don't think Smothers would be the QB for that kind of offense either. I'm more just asking, is that what that kind of marriaged offense would look like?

 

[slattimer]

This is my opinion on the direction of the offense, based on what they've been trending towards in games, who they have supposedly spoken to recently in the off-season, and IF those hires come to fruition.

#1 - Run game trending towards gun triple, with still having traditional spread elements like zone read with perimeter screens and guessing some RPOs they feel good about. I feel like they're trending toward more 3 back football in a spread sense. That being, a dive read, a pitch read somehow, and then a sniffer/h-back bluff player. It's really no different than any spread team across the country.

#2 - Passing game will remain largely the same. They're not going to change whole sale conceptually what they believe in throwing the ball...that is running 4-verts, Y-cross, mesh. You can run those anyways off the PAP utilizing "triple" action.

#3 - By the end of all of this IF Davis is hired, I'm going to lose my mind with all of the "Derrr...how we's gonna croot some atha-leetes to play WR when we's running dat Arghmy triple option Doc Thom wood be proud of."

 

[Pipe Line]

This is my opinion on the direction of the offense, based on what they've been trending towards in games, who they have supposedly spoken to recently in the off-season, and IF those hires come to fruition.

#1 - Run game trending towards gun triple, with still having traditional spread elements like zone read with perimeter screens and guessing some RPOs they feel good about. I feel like they're trending toward more 3 back football in a spread sense. That being, a dive read, a pitch read somehow, and then a sniffer/h-back bluff player. It's really no different than any spread team across the country.

#2 - Passing game will remain largely the same. They're not going to change whole sale conceptually what they believe in throwing the ball...that is running 4-verts, Y-cross, mesh. You can run those anyways off the PAP utilizing "triple" action.

#3 - By the end of all of this IF Davis is hired, I'm going to lose my mind with all of the "Derrr...how we's gonna croot some atha-leetes to play WR when we's running dat Arghmy triple option Doc Thom wood be proud of."

lol at the third one. So, what is Mickey's job in the passing game? Crisper routes, depth, foot work, cuts, little details like that I'm assuming?

 

[...TrueColors...]

#3 - By the end of all of this IF Davis is hired, I'm going to lose my mind with all of the "Derrr...how we's gonna croot some atha-leetes to play WR when we's running dat Arghmy triple option Doc Thom wood be proud of."

You will hear something along this line all off-season. Run the ball guy will live in a state of constant organism as he thinks about us running exactly what Army runs now. He’ll then post on RSS about how he thinks the personnel will work with the current roster.

 

[slattimer]

modern version of the 97 offense with more passing to receivers?

Everyone needs to stop with this mindset of comparing everything to what Nebraska did in the 1990s. They're going to run a spread system out of 11/12 personnel, It's going to look similar to every spread game out there with the exception IMO, of more "3" back football. So the with that said, to stop 3 back football, you need to get dudes in the box, primarily safeties at some point. You can't play 7 in the box and expect to be successful unless your vastly superior in those areas. When dudes starting packing the box, of flying down from the $ spot, or playing hard Cov 2...then you've got opportunities in the vertical pass game...primarily running...you guessed it, some version of 4 verts and/or Y-Cross.

lol at the third one. So, what is Mickey's job in the passing game? Crisper routes, depth, foot work, cuts, little details like that I'm assuming?

The same thing every WR coach in the country does...but hopefully not like that damn vegan.

 

[Pipe Line]

Everyone needs to stop with this mindset of comparing everything to what Nebraska did in the 1990s. They're going to run a spread system out of 11/12 personnel, It's going to look similar to every spread game out there with the exception IMO, of more "3" back football. So the with that said, to stop 3 back football, you need to get dudes in the box, primarily safeties at some point. You can't play 7 in the box and expect to be successful unless your vastly superior in those areas. When dudes starting packing the box, of flying down from the $ spot, or playing hard Cov 2...then you've got opportunities in the vertical pass game...primarily running...you guessed it, some version of 4 verts and/or Y-Cross.

The same thing every WR coach in the country does...but hopefully not like that damn vegan.

Okay sooooooooo essentially a little more emphasis on the 3 back option attack than this year, same concepts but just adding on, and hopefully more success with running inside the tackles, then air raid passing concepts when the safeties start to cheat forward. And then vice versa. That sound about right?


Only reason I mentioned the 90s offense was to base it off something I know about. Not much evidence of it to work off of in today's CFB.

 

[Faux Sean Callahan]

Everyone needs to stop with this mindset of comparing everything to what Nebraska did in the 1990s. They're going to run a spread system out of 11/12 personnel, It's going to look similar to every spread game out there with the exception IMO, of more "3" back football. So the with that said, to stop 3 back football, you need to get dudes in the box, primarily safeties at some point. You can't play 7 in the box and expect to be successful unless your vastly superior in those areas. When dudes starting packing the box, of flying down from the $ spot, or playing hard Cov 2...then you've got opportunities in the vertical pass game...primarily running...you guessed it, some version of 4 verts and/or Y-Cross.

Yeah something about having Betts 1-1 doesn't suck.

Also this is why we were really efficient in our passing game in terms of yards per attempt.

If you can keep your QB healthy this will be a VERY tough system to stop. You are basically running the army run concepts (out of the gun) with the Leach passing concepts. The tricky thing is keeping your QB healthy. How do you run that system without your QB averaging 12+ carries? I don't know.

 

[Pipe Line]

Yeah something about having Betts 1-1 doesn't suck.

Also this is why we were really efficient in our passing game in terms of yards per attempt.

If you can keep your QB healthy this will be a VERY tough system to stop. You are basically running the army run concepts (out of the gun) with the Leach passing concepts. The tricky thing is keeping your QB healthy. How do you run that system without your QB averaging 12+ carries? I don't know.

Bigger sized portal QB realistically could probably do it

 

[slattimer]

Okay sooooooooo essentially a little more emphasis on the 3 back option attack than this year, same concepts but just adding on, and hopefully more success with running inside the tackles, then air raid passing concepts when the safeties start to cheat forward. And then vice versa. That sound about right?


Only reason I mentioned the 90s offense was to base it off something I know about. Not much evidence of it to work off of in today's CFB.

All of these are 3 back options. Two of which, we will never run. The obvious, flexbone veer triple at the bottom, the 3rd of which, is basically veer triple, more duo triple, but that's besides the point, I drew them up in a hurry. The top two, again, is 3 back football. Just like anything, there is a dive read, there is the QB keep element, and there is a pitch element. None of which is earth shattering or ground breaking IMO. IF Davis is coming, his expertise in 3 back option and its compliments would be fine.

But this is why I get bent out of shape by all the shuck'em'ups out there. The 4 above graphics, are literally, the same play conceptually.

 

[Pipe Line]

View attachment 6010
View attachment 6012
View attachment 6011

View attachment 6013


All of these are 3 back options. Two of which, we will never run. The obvious, flexbone veer triple at the bottom, the 3rd of which, is basically veer triple, more duo triple, but that's besides the point, I drew them up in a hurry. The top two, again, is 3 back football. Just like anything, there is a dive read, there is the QB keep element, and there is a pitch element. None of which is earth shattering or ground breaking IMO. IF Davis is coming, his expertise in 3 back option and its compliments would be fine.

But this is why I get bent out of shape by all the shuck'em'ups out there. The 4 above graphics, are literally, the same play conceptually.

Yes sir, I understand. Thank you. Honestly, as this has gone on, I've become more a Run the Damn Ball guy. Unpopular opinion, I like the idea of merging Davis's option game knowledge with the air raid passing concepts. Some for the option concepts, but also for the discipline and tough running game that it seems like we've been lacking. Obviously like the idea of Mickey coming in and bringing his development for the passing game. Think it could be a perfect old school/new school marriage.

 

[djw004]

View attachment 6010
View attachment 6012
View attachment 6011

View attachment 6013


All of these are 3 back options. Two of which, we will never run. The obvious, flexbone veer triple at the bottom, the 3rd of which, is basically veer triple, more duo triple, but that's besides the point, I drew them up in a hurry. The top two, again, is 3 back football. Just like anything, there is a dive read, there is the QB keep element, and there is a pitch element. None of which is earth shattering or ground breaking IMO. IF Davis is coming, his expertise in 3 back option and its compliments would be fine.

But this is why I get bent out of shape by all the shuck'em'ups out there. The 4 above graphics, are literally, the same play conceptually.

Do this more often please and thank you. Can we get this man a raise?

 

[herbsinator]

lol at the third one. So, what is Mickey's job in the passing game? Crisper routes, depth, foot work, cuts, little details like that I'm assuming?

I.e. coaching WRs?

 

[Pipe Line]

I.e. coaching WRs?

I genuinely meant if it was anything different than what Frost wanted from Lubick on a more specific scale maybe. Didn't know if his knowledge was deeper, better at connecting with people, things like that.

 

[herbsinator]

I genuinely meant if it was anything different than what Frost wanted from Lubick on a more specific scale maybe. Didn't know if his knowledge was deeper, better at connecting with people, things like that.

fundamentally I don’t think the role will be different, I just think he’ll be a lot better at it.

 

[Huskers633]

lol at the third one. So, what is Mickey's job in the passing game? Crisper routes, depth, foot work, cuts, little details like that I'm assuming?

Keep Wyatt Liewer and Brody Belt on the sideline. That's his fucking job.