AAC-BIG

[Pipe Line]

I'm assuming at this post that Frost is probably hosed by season's end. So I have a question. Purely sticking with the Frost's offense concept and to why it didn't work very well in the Big 10, is it really as simple as there are just better athletes and better coaches and obviously better teams in the Big 10 than the AAC? If that is the case, does that mean the offense isn't very good in the first place?


Assuming it's base principles are similar to what was ran at Oregon under Chip, why was that so successful in the Pac 12 yet not in the BIG? And is the difference in athletes what separates Ohio State's spread from Frost's spread? Or was the Big 10 able to adjust to Frost's offense so quick because Frost just isn't a seasoned enough HC/play caller yet? He called plays at Oregon and it worked fine, so maybe it's the balance between HC/OC at a Power 5 that he just wasn't mentally ready for?

 

[kchusker1423]

Personally, I think it is a couple of things.

1. The talent required to make this offense successful in the B1G is way different than what it was in the AAC. Just look at the way WR recruiting has shifted. He had small, shifty guys at UCF and those same types were in the first few recruiting classes here as well.
2. I don't think he is running near the same offense this year that he ran in even Year 1 here. We don't use the Duck-R position at all hardly, and a lot of the RPO stuff was non-existent last Saturday. I think the biggest indictment the last three years is that Scott can't commit to an RB run game. His QB is his biggest run threat, and it wasn't like that at Oregon or UCF. Sure the QB was a threat, but he didn't double as your bellcow. And right now that is what this offense is with Adrian, and any other QB that has played the position since Devine graduated.
3. I think this is just a me thought, but I think he knows what he needs to do to actually make this offense work, and it is what a lot of the fans have been asking for -- a downhill, power run game that sets up the pass. But, I think he's too stubborn to admit it and have someone else get to say "I told you so." Hell, even his own o-line coach has called for it publicly through the media. I don't think the line is as bad as it played on Saturday. I do think the scheme does them no favors at all. But maybe I am out to lunch on that.

 

[Pipe Line]

Personally, I think it is a couple of things.

1. The talent required to make this offense successful in the B1G is way different than what it was in the AAC. Just look at the way WR recruiting has shifted. He had small, shifty guys at UCF and those same types were in the first few recruiting classes here as well.
2. I don't think he is running near the same offense this year that he ran in even Year 1 here. We don't use the Duck-R position at all hardly, and a lot of the RPO stuff was non-existent last Saturday. I think the biggest indictment the last three years is that Scott can't commit to an RB run game. His QB is his biggest run threat, and it wasn't like that at Oregon or UCF. Sure the QB was a threat, but he didn't double as your bellcow. And right now that is what this offense is with Adrian, and any other QB that has played the position since Devine graduated.
3. I think this is just a me thought, but I think he knows what he needs to do to actually make this offense work, and it is what a lot of the fans have been asking for -- a downhill, power run game that sets up the pass. But, I think he's too stubborn to admit it and have someone else get to say "I told you so." Hell, even his own o-line coach has called for it publicly through the media. I don't think the line is as bad as it played on Saturday. I do think the scheme does them no favors at all. But maybe I am out to lunch on that.

Based on Saturday, what would you say he is trying to run offensively in 2021? I agree it doesn't look anything like Year 1. It looks worse

 

[kchusker1423]

No fucking clue. Looks like he is throwing shit against the wall and hoping something sticks.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I think it boils down to 1. Better athletes in the big ten make it harder to get chunk plays if you don't have elite athletes and 2. The margin for error bigger in the AAC because teams and coaches aren't as good. And 3. Frost wants to do everything on offense for a team that probably can't consistently execute 15 plays right.

 

[Pipe Line]

I think it boils down to 1. Better athletes in the big ten make it harder to get chunk plays if you don't have elite athletes and 2. The margin for error bigger in the AAC because teams and coaches aren't as good. And 3. Frost wants to do everything on offense for a team that probably can't consistently execute 15 plays right.

I mean yeah it definitely shows, but how in the hell are some of these guys 2-3-4 years deep in the system and still can't execute correctly? That's horrendous.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Personally, I think it is a couple of things.

1. The talent required to make this offense successful in the B1G is way different than what it was in the AAC. Just look at the way WR recruiting has shifted. He had small, shifty guys at UCF and those same types were in the first few recruiting classes here as well.
2. I don't think he is running near the same offense this year that he ran in even Year 1 here. We don't use the Duck-R position at all hardly, and a lot of the RPO stuff was non-existent last Saturday. I think the biggest indictment the last three years is that Scott can't commit to an RB run game. His QB is his biggest run threat, and it wasn't like that at Oregon or UCF. Sure the QB was a threat, but he didn't double as your bellcow. And right now that is what this offense is with Adrian, and any other QB that has played the position since Devine graduated.
3. I think this is just a me thought, but I think he knows what he needs to do to actually make this offense work, and it is what a lot of the fans have been asking for -- a downhill, power run game that sets up the pass. But, I think he's too stubborn to admit it and have someone else get to say "I told you so." Hell, even his own o-line coach has called for it publicly through the media. I don't think the line is as bad as it played on Saturday. I do think the scheme does them no favors at all. But maybe I am out to lunch on that.

UCF had some small, fast RBs but they had some legit size at WR and TE

the biggest thing they had was a QB who made quick decisions and had the arm to make challenging throws. the offense works great with a QB who can identify the open guy and push the ball down the field. with how limited AM is (both mentally and in terms of his arm) he limits everything the offense tries to do. I'm not sure it's even possible to have a successful offense with what AM brings to the table

 

[Pipe Line]

UCF had some small, fast RBs but they had some legit size at WR and TE

the biggest thing they had was a QB who made quick decisions and had the arm to make challenging throws. the offense works great with a QB who can identify the open guy and push the ball down the field. with how limited AM is (both mentally and in terms of his arm) he limits everything the offense tries to do. I'm not sure it's even possible to have a successful offense with what AM brings to the table

Is his arm that toast from injuries?

 

[kchusker1423]

UCF had some small, fast RBs but they had some legit size at WR and TE

the biggest thing they had was a QB who made quick decisions and had the arm to make challenging throws. the offense works great with a QB who can identify the open guy and push the ball down the field. with how limited AM is (both mentally and in terms of his arm) he limits everything the offense tries to do. I'm not sure it's even possible to have a successful offense with what AM brings to the table

Completely agree. Pretty damning that they still haven't found anyone better, either. The backups can't even push him for playing time, so you don't get to replicate live situations in practice forcing him to work on this stuff. It's easy with a green jersey on to not worry about the pocket collapsing on you.

Frost riding with AM over Burrow should have told us everything.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

I mean yeah it definitely shows, but how in the hell are some of these guys 2-3-4 years deep in the system and still can't execute correctly? That's horrendous.

I have no idea. We have yet to see game to game or year to year improve under Frost in any offensive aspect of the game which means that he's probably fucked

 

[Baron Winnebago]

Completely agree. Pretty damning that they still haven't found anyone better, either. The backups can't even push him for playing time, so you don't get to replicate live situations in practice forcing him to work on this stuff. It's easy with a green jersey on to not worry about the pocket collapsing on you.

Frost riding with AM over Burrow should have told us everything.

Not taking Burrow is the defining moment of frost's tenure.

 

[Pipe Line]

I have no idea. We have yet to see game to game or year to year improve under Frost in any offensive aspect of the game which means that he's probably fucked

My revelation that "nothing has changed" happened when CTB did what he did. I laughed, shook my head, and sat down on the couch in pure disbelief.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Is his arm that toast from injuries?

it looks that way to me. even when we see video of him throwing in warm-ups he has a hitch and hesitates before every throw like he's just not sure he can make the throw, or it's going to hurt so he takes a second to mentally gather himself

watch these highlights from 2018 and compare some of the throws he's making to what we've seen the last couple of years. he's throwing most of these on time and with good velocity (the throw at 3:25 is one of the best I've ever seen from a NU QB). pay attention to the more vertical throws and especially the seam routes, he actually makes good throws where if he tried that now the ball would either be skipped 5 yards short of the receiver or float over their heads. he even runs scared now, compared to 2018. it's become a joke now to look back and laugh at his heisman hype heading into 2019, but watching this video we can understand where it came from. I think we'd all be happy to have this player on the 2021 team, but current AM will never be that guy again

 

[God is a Husker]

My revelation that "nothing has changed" happened when CTB did what he did. I laughed, shook my head, and sat down on the couch in pure disbelief.

I mean… I will bet my life that idiot has been told multiple times by multiple coaches over 10+ years of football not to field a punt inside the 10 yard line.


There is PLENTY of blame to lay on Frost and Co. without adding the pure stupidly of TaylorBritt doing what he did.

Same with the missed extra points, like the kicker wasn’t missing extra points everyday in practice or he wouldn’t have been the kicker. The kid choked twice under the (not) bright lights of Champaign Illinois.

I don’t blame Frost for either. So many other things they did/didn’t do to talk about. TaylorBritt and the missed extra points ain’t on coaching… but Jesus Christ if I was Frost CTB wouldn’t ever play special teams again and the kicker would have been cut on Sunday.

 

[David Webb]

Not taking Burrow seems idiotic, but let’s be realistic. It is all based on how he did at LSU. He had 2 TD passes and less than 300 yards passing at Ohio St. There was no data showing he was the next big thing. Frost has been a shit coach so far, but I wouldn’t add that to the list of dumb things he has done.

Completely agree. Pretty damning that they still haven't found anyone better, either. The backups can't even push him for playing time, so you don't get to replicate live situations in practice forcing him to work on this stuff. It's easy with a green jersey on to not worry about the pocket collapsing on you.

Frost riding with AM over Burrow should have told us everything.

Not taking Burrow is the defining moment of frost's tenure.

 

[Pipe Line]

I mean… I will bet my life that idiot has been told multiple times by multiple coaches over 10+ years of football not to field a punt inside the 10 yard line.


There is PLENTY of blame to lay on Frost and Co. without adding the pure stupidly of TaylorBritt doing what he did.

Same with the missed extra points, like the kicker wasn’t missing extra points everyday in practice or he wouldn’t have been the kicker. The kid choked twice under the (not) bright lights of Champaign Illinois.

I don’t blame Frost for either. So many other things they did/didn’t do to talk about. TaylorBritt and the missed extra points ain’t on coaching… but Jesus Christ if I was Frost CTB wouldn’t ever play special teams again and the kicker would have been cut on Sunday.

I agree with this fully and I've been preaching this out my ass for the last 3 years. But to see players continuing to make dumbass mistakes is just pure accountability issues across the board, which blows ass for me to say but ultimately falls on Frost.

 

[Pipe Line]

it looks that way to me. even when we see video of him throwing in warm-ups he has a hitch and hesitates before every throw like he's just not sure he can make the throw, or it's going to hurt so he takes a second to mentally gather himself

watch these highlights from 2018 and compare some of the throws he's making to what we've seen the last couple of years. he's throwing most of these on time and with good velocity (the throw at 3:25 is one of the best I've ever seen from a NU QB). pay attention to the more vertical throws and especially the seam routes, he actually makes good throws where if he tried that now the ball would either be skipped 5 yards short of the receiver or float over their heads. he even runs scared now, compared to 2018. it's become a joke now to look back and laugh at his heisman hype heading into 2019, but watching this video we can understand where it came from. I think we'd all be happy to have this player on the 2021 team, but current AM will never be that guy again

I think there is a shoulder thing there, if not physically then mentally. He's just missed throws the last 3 years that he absolutely nailed in 2018. You don't just lose that unless you're not healthy somewhere. I think he played scared now, personally, but it's because of the hits he's taken over the years and some of the fumbles and him just playing so tight from wanting to be perfect.


I don't know, every move he makes now seems so calculated instead of just letting shit rip and having fun. Mariota and Milton looked like they were having fun and everything just came natural. It feels forced with Adrian. Shit even the pre snap stuff between plays feels awkward.

 

[Baron Winnebago]

Not taking Burrow seems idiotic, but let’s be realistic. It is all based on how he did at LSU. He had 2 TD passes and less than 300 yards passing at Ohio St. There was no data showing he was the next big thing. Frost has been a shit coach so far, but I wouldn’t add that to the list of dumb things he has done.

While I agree with you, and I do believe you are right to say that let's not assume burrow would turn into Heisman Burrow, Frost has no data points to suggest either Gebbia or Martinez could play Division 1 football at a high level. While Burrow had an incredibly limited sample size at Ohio State, he was still a take in my book. Betting on two (realistically one) freshman was a bad bet. Even if burrow is just an above average Big Ten QB, you'd be better off than you were.


But again, I agree that we shouldn't retcon it to act like Frost saw a guaranteed #1 overall pick and passed

 

[Alcaus]

I don’t think our coaches are particularly good nor is our skill talent all that explosive.

I don’t think the type of offense really matters that much in the scheme of things.

 

[wildcat_husker]

I mean… I will bet my life that idiot has been told multiple times by multiple coaches over 10+ years of football not to field a punt inside the 10 yard line.


There is PLENTY of blame to lay on Frost and Co. without adding the pure stupidly of TaylorBritt doing what he did.

Same with the missed extra points, like the kicker wasn’t missing extra points everyday in practice or he wouldn’t have been the kicker. The kid choked twice under the (not) bright lights of Champaign Illinois.

I don’t blame Frost for either. So many other things they did/didn’t do to talk about. TaylorBritt and the missed extra points ain’t on coaching… but Jesus Christ if I was Frost CTB wouldn’t ever play special teams again and the kicker would have been cut on Sunday.

I wouldn’t blame either on Frost if they were isolated events. But shit like this has happened since he’s been here.